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 Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........

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Numaan
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PostSubject: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:29 pm

I came across the following three listings from different sellers selling vintage bronze cast 'antiques'.  I can't help but notice the similarities to Schleich models all of which are from the 21st century so not sure how these are classified as antiques.

Either the sellers are telling porkies or they really dont realise that the bronz sculpts are just modified copies of Schleich.  I do not want to get the sellers in trouble or anything, I just thought it is interesting to share with you.

Lion [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Tiger [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Kudu [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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trevok4



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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:46 pm

very strange kudu

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SUSANNE
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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:11 pm

Thanks for sharing Applause 

Of course it could be Schleich copying an old bronze, - but the painting certainly is nothing near the style of the 1920 !!!Wink 

Good that he tries to play safe saying that he isn't an expert Laughing 

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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:41 pm

Wow, that is interesting. It's almost as if the "artist" aggrandized the figures. The tiger's feet are weird. Suspect scratch Laughing 

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LeeAnn
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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:58 pm

Look at the kudu. It's obvious the branding was hot-knifed off. Rolling Eyes I think this is very interesting. and I agree with Paige, the tiger has weird paws. Thank you very much for sharing Numaan! cheers

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landrover



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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:18 am


Wonderful animals,very rare.

Hard to get this antiques.

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widukind



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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:29 am

Very interesting, now i know why Schleich produce in china Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing 

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scot(t)



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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:43 am

yeah, those are schleich models. I can't help wondering whether the seller knows that what is being sold is not any 80-year old antique.
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krista



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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:22 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
yeah, those are schleich models. I can't help wondering whether the seller knows that what is being sold is not any 80-year old antique.
Seems to me that someone's trying to make some easy money.
Have you looked up this Franz Bergman whose works these are supposed to be? His style is completely different.

Usually antique collectors know their stuff and what's worth anything... I doubt those figures will sell.

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AlienMantis



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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:52 pm

They actuually sell Sad

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  22 bids

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  sold Sad

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krista



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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:06 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
They actuually sell :(

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  22 bids

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  sold :(

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OH NO! I guess the antique collectors don't visit toy shops often..
I feel so bad for these people. But I'd also like to inform them that the tiger is a fake...

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LeeAnn
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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:17 pm

I actually believe the tiger is a real Bergman bronze... there are enough differences from the Schleich one that it's very possible Schleich was copying off of Bergman or they are just very ironically similar. The tiger does not appear to have a marking hot knifed off it, and the marking appears genuine, looking at other photos. However, I'm pretty sure the lion and kudu are fake and Schleich copies.

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Shardur



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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:22 pm

Perhaps the manufactorers just used the same tools (prototype / core) to cast the figurines either in bronze or in plastic. So none wuold be a fake. Just the motive is the same.
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Numaan
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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:18 pm

This is such an interesting theory - could Schleich really have copied an antique design? Or is the tiger antique a total fake?

I thought the maker took a tiger copy and perhaps remoulded some parts to make it look different. If it is a fake then the ebay buyers are being ripped off. What is the truth? Certainly an interesting mystery. Kudu is undoubtedly a fake
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Numaan
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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:25 pm

My goodness just did a search online and the Franz tiger appears on many websites including authentic antique sites -

See example link here where you see the tiger AND the lion!

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The lion also appears here and looks very convincing:
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Are you telling me that Schleich really copied these antiques?!

I have a theory - if Schleich did copy these then someone has probably taken a Schleich copy and tried to make it look like the old original authentic item because if you study the lion images in the links above they do look a little different to Schleich.

Anyway for interest I love the Franz Indian elephant - a fantastic set. Take a look:

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for reference, a different Franz Bronz tiger:
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AlienMantis



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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:36 pm

I think, it's very weird for antique figurine to have a full body texture and to be chubby. I have the feeling, that all old figurines are tin and abit mangy.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] another original tiger.


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scot(t)



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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:26 pm

I now have no idea what to make of the Bronze Lion and its striking similarities to the Schleich. That is fascinating.
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krista



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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:52 pm

Ok, now this got interesting....

It's possible that Bergman's style has developed during the years (wish there were accurate years on these models), but the other tigers (and his other stuff) are less detailed. Either the sculpting or the painting, depending on the figure.. The Schleich look-a-likes look almost plastic to me, the others have a different, more rough and metallic look on them..

Of course they could be real, but I'm suspicious... They don't look vintage to me, of course I'm not an expert on this area... :'D Though in the link that Numaan posted, the figures look more different and more authentic than in the Ebay links..
So this theory could be possible:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I have a theory - if Schleich did copy these then someone has probably taken a Schleich copy and tried to make it look like the old original authentic item because if you study the lion images in the links above they do look a little different to Schleich.



And to mix things up a little bit more, this comes up a few times from Google image search when you search Franz Bergman:
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The source is again Ebay, but the auction has closed so it links only to the Ebay listing for "Viennese Bronze" or something.

:P

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LeeAnn
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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:06 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
And to mix things up a little bit more, this comes up a few times from Google image search when you search Franz Bergman:
The source is again Ebay, but the auction has closed so it links only to the Ebay listing for "Viennese Bronze" or something.
I noticed that one and if you keep scrolling further you will find the Schleich recent lizard as well. And there is another that looks like one of Schleich's elephant calves. There is also a bulldog that comes up a few times that is very similar in style to the Schleich-look-a-likes. Now I'm not so sure these are fakes. Did Schleich really copy these bronze figures, or did someone take Schleich figures and make them look like Bergman bronze? pale No confused Funny how we are all "fake, fake, fake" at first glance, then suddenly we're all undecided. Razz study

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Kikimalou
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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:44 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


Anyway for interest I love the Franz Indian elephant - a fantastic set.  Take a look:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


for reference, a different Franz Bronz tiger:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Yes I would love Schleich would copied this elephant  cheers 

The most funny  Wink  here is an old "Franz Xavier Bergman" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Shocked 


And a [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Laughing

And so it means Papo also copied Franz Xavier Bergman models.

I can't wait to see a Gaur by Franz Xavier Bergman, Maybe Anna copied it  Laughing 

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Kikimalou
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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:57 am

Some more  affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid 

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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:19 am

A very interesting case of copyright . . . And maybe answer to my question why Papo lioness so perfect and lion not , and Schleich Lion face so beauty comparing with Schleich lioness . Well , it's funny, at least
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LeeAnn
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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:29 pm

This still makes me confused scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:31 pm

I think they are fakes  Wink 

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PostSubject: Re: Curious "Antiques" on Ebay.........   Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:53 pm

There are lots of well known bronze figurines on ebay.de too
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