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 Braids and other fun for horses :-)

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koniminiatures

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:09 am

Thanks everyone for the feedback - I'm glad so many found the little writeup interesting. My thanks, of course, to Susanne for starting the thread in the first place and supplying such good pictures of the models and their adornments! Also, I must note I didn't mean to hijack the thread - my post got a bit out of hand, swelling in length as I wrote.

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Living in The Netherlands I should know KWPN's  inspection traditions better  Embarassed
You're one lucky woman to live so (relatively) near to all those glorious keurings and studs, trekpaard shows and riding competitions...! I tell you, I'd have a mind (if not the funds) to one day go tour the equestrian centrals of mainland Europe. From a Finnish point of view it seems you have all those magnificent and unusually historic breeds, events and large studs all bundled up closely neighbouring each other, even if in different countries.. The Friesians and sports horses of the Netherlands, the German and French heavy draughts, Lipizzans and Kladrubers and Koniks and Shagyas... It's downright unfair! Laughing 

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I've just come back again to your article Lea, it's super interesting, especially oldest records of braiding in ancient art, it's amazing. Thanks again!  cheers
I'm glad you liked it! For a lot of info, reconstructions and links on the subject of equestrian culture in ancient times, check out [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] excellent blog - be warned, though, the place is a time warp. You'll emerge seven hours later with your intrigue none lessened.

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Thanks Susanne for opening this thread and Lea for your very interesting imput! cheers
We spend all time trying to save these figures, or because it is not impossible or because it is not as bad as in catalogue pictures. Honestly, I second what Ana's saying. I don't have anything against braided horses although I think that free manes and tails are characteristics that make horses look so beautiful. If Schleich was releasing a little number of braided horses it was acceptable but it is too much. This year, for me, the Frisian was enough once it is the only one I like the braids, alsoif it was the only braided, it would turn her somewhat special and now she is only one more among many of them.
I also think that some of these horses are really bad sculpts and braids work as a distracting thing.

I quite agree with Roger on the abundance of braids and gimmicks on the recent Schleich releases being a bit much. I also think the sculpts are pretty atrocious and the braids seem to be used to try and hide this. Still, now that we have all those braids, I suppose it couldn't hurt to take a closer look - even if not in their (or the afflicted models') defense entirely.

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:29 am

jonesee wrote:
Thanks/kiitos Lea cheers  Susanne, Bullyland Westphalian mare 2013, Dressage Westphalian and Arabian mare with equipment? Wink

Ohhh, of course  Shocked How COULD I forget Bullyland ?  Embarassed 

Bullyland Arabian mare :
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Bullyland Westphalian dressage horse :
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Bullyland Westphalian mare :
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Bullyland Trakehner gelding :
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Bullyland Hanoveranian gelding, Don Johnson :
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Thankyou, Jonas  flower

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:06 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
......... Also, I must note I didn't mean to hijack the thread - my post got a bit out of hand, swelling in length as I wrote.


No, no, no ! Of course you didn't !!! This is a brilliant example of teamwork  cheers cheers cheers 

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:41 pm

I'm a horserider and also a horselover and I prefer ''natural'' horses, I mean without braids... I have to admit brands has to make new ''things'' for getting some new figures... but they must investigate and make serious things...

For example, Andalusian mare. In Spain andalusian mares don't have this braids; they are usually with very short mains because they don't live in boxes (-usually in the field or mount-) as you can see here (''cobra'' of Yeguada Cárdenas -Fuego's owner-) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:01 am

Good point, Persefone !!!
Thankyou for this information  Applause 

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:40 am

I do think braids are OK, but i only think they are if there is NO pink of other very ''loud'' color is used to make them more girly ore something. Ans i just can't help myself to tink they are doing a very bad paint job on the most braids (like the braids on teh haflinger mare in this topic) I almost can not buy horses from the stores here because of the bad paint jobs, i just want the perfect one and all of them seem to my like they are painted in a hurry!

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:20 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I do think braids are OK, but i only think they are if there is NO pink of other very ''loud'' color is used to make them more girly ore something. Ans i just can't help myself to tink they are doing a very bad paint job on the most braids (like the braids on teh haflinger mare in this topic) I almost can not buy horses from the stores here because of the bad paint jobs, i just want the perfect one and all of them seem to my like they are painted in a hurry!

You are so right ! That poor haflinger mare  Crying or Very sad 

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:27 pm

Braiding on a model horse replica isn’t a new theme. Back in 1966 Britains released their plastic version of their Suffolk Mare and this featured a braided mane and tail. Has been stated above work horses in Britain have this done as part of tradition and for performing work.

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Originally issued in hollow cast metal from 1946 to 1959. So this model has been around for a while.  Very Happy 

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:59 pm

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The Schleich Trakhener mare from this year :
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[hijack]Is this photo accurate? Is this what passes for a neck in Schleichs nowadays? Holee crap... [/hijack]

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:19 pm

Thankyou, Chris Very Happy

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[hijack]Is this photo accurate? Is this what passes for a neck in Schleichs nowadays? Holee crap... [/hijack]

She is not a horse, she is horaffe  alien Laughing Laughing Laughing 

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:22 pm

Man, from the catalog pics I thought this one at least had potential... *grumble* I wish their sculptor knew how to sculpt something - anything - besides hair.  Evil or Very Mad 

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:45 pm

Thanks Chris, that is again a very interesting contribution. Curious that it is a Suffolk mare, the same breed Ana sculpted for Mojo being released this year. The figure is wonderful, I like a lot the volumes and proportions. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:57 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Thankyou, Chris Very Happy


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Thanks Chris, that is again a very interesting contribution. Curious that it is a Suffolk mare, the same breed Ana sculpted for Mojo being released this year. The figure is wonderful, I like a lot the volumes and proportions. Very Happy

A pleasure to share Susanne and Roger. Perhaps Roger Anna was inspired by this model.  Very Happy  And now a bonus shot of a close-up of Britains Suffolk Mare:

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:09 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Braiding on a model horse replica isn’t a new theme. Back in 1966 Britains released their plastic version of their Suffolk Mare and this featured a braided mane and tail. Has been stated above work horses in Britain have this done as part of tradition and for performing work.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], on Flickr

Originally issued in hollow cast metal from 1946 to 1959. So this model has been around for a while.  Very Happy 

WOW she is beautiful!  drunken I wish Schleich could just sculpt like that, in Schleich size and then with rich texture and paintwork drunken What a dream!

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Braiding on a model horse replica isn’t a new theme. Back in 1966 Britains released their plastic version of their Suffolk Mare and this featured a braided mane and tail. Has been stated above work horses in Britain have this done as part of tradition and for performing work.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], on Flickr

Originally issued in hollow cast metal from 1946 to 1959. So this model has been around for a while.  Very Happy 

WOW she is beautiful!  drunken I wish Schleich could just sculpt like that, in Schleich size and then with rich texture and paintwork drunken What a dream!

Yeah, what a beautiful model horse! Lots of details and it's head with the exception of the very gorgeous cheers 
Thanks for sharing Chris!

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:57 pm

Gorgeous Suffolk mare! Very Happy I have a book on draft horse showing that has a lot of great pics of the various braiding styles. Turns out there's a style for each breed, which is rather helpful for collectors when it comes to deciding whether a particular model should be shown as, say, a Shire or a Clyde.

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:32 pm

Many thanks Carola, Jonas and Sumo.  Very Happy 

I too am amazed at the detail Britains put into their toy figures. Their sculptors were masters at getting the pose and details just right.

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:20 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Thankyou, Chris Very Happy


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Thanks Chris, that is again a very interesting contribution. Curious that it is a Suffolk mare, the same breed Ana sculpted for Mojo being released this year. The figure is wonderful, I like a lot the volumes and proportions. Very Happy

A pleasure to share Susanne and Roger. Perhaps Roger Anna was inspired by this model.  Very Happy  And now a bonus shot of a close-up of Britains Suffolk Mare:


Oh, actually I wasn't aware of this model  Embarassed , I should know Britains figures better but I mainly know Britains which appear on forum more often.
I think it's lovely figure indeed!  cheers  Interesting they painted mane and tail black (or very very dark brown), it's not very often seen in chestnut horses.
Anyway, now I feel inspired! Maybe I will remake mane on one copy of my Suffolk mare to have similar braids like this one Very Happy
And, as Suffolks are one of my favourite horse breeds I think I will search this Britains figure to my collection Very Happy

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Gorgeous Suffolk mare! Very Happy I have a book on draft horse showing that has a lot of great pics of the various braiding styles. Turns out there's a style for each breed, which is rather helpful for collectors when it comes to deciding whether a particular model should be shown as, say, a Shire or a Clyde.

Wow, such a book must be really interesting! Could you send few images here? I would be especially happy to see what's typical for Suffolk Punch Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:26 pm

Thanks for your explanation about braiding Lea! Really interesting :)

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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Thankyou, Chris Very Happy


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Thanks Chris, that is again a very interesting contribution. Curious that it is a Suffolk mare, the same breed Ana sculpted for Mojo being released this year. The figure is wonderful, I like a lot the volumes and proportions. Very Happy

A pleasure to share Susanne and Roger. Perhaps Roger Anna was inspired by this model.  Very Happy  And now a bonus shot of a close-up of Britains Suffolk Mare:


Oh, actually I wasn't aware of this model  Embarassed , I should know Britains figures better but I mainly know Britains which appear on forum more often.
I think it's lovely figure indeed!  cheers  Interesting they painted mane and tail black (or very very dark brown), it's not very often seen in chestnut horses.
Anyway, now I feel inspired! Maybe I will remake mane on one copy of my Suffolk mare to have similar braids like this one Very Happy
And, as Suffolks are one of my favourite horse breeds I think I will search this Britains figure to my collection Very Happy


Anna

Please accept my apologies. I honestly thought that you have seen Britains' Suffolk Mare before. It is a fairly common model but perhaps my images were the first ones on STS?

I have just looked at some real Suffolk horses on the net and I agree that Britains colour combination is strange.

Hopefully, these images have inspired you to do a version with braided mane and tail. There are a number of images on the net that show this in detail.

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:55 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
.....  Interesting they painted mane and tail black (or very very dark brown), it's not very often seen in chestnut horses.
....

You are so right. A horse with black mane/tail is NOT chestnut, it is bay  Laughing 

That is the phaenotype definition of a chestnut, - the mane/tail is never darker that the body.
Geneticly a chestnut is ee, which means " not-black". This means that black colour is as impossible as it is that she would grow a trunk  lol! 

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:33 am

Chestnuts can have a mane and tail darker than their body colour; even still, it won't be black (even though it can [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] pretty [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]) - it'll be just another shade of pheomelanin brown like [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (scroll down a bit to the trotting Laramie) or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Chestnuts can also have a near-gray manes like [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

Also, here are some Suffolks done up:
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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:50 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Thankyou, Chris Very Happy


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Thanks Chris, that is again a very interesting contribution. Curious that it is a Suffolk mare, the same breed Ana sculpted for Mojo being released this year. The figure is wonderful, I like a lot the volumes and proportions. Very Happy

A pleasure to share Susanne and Roger. Perhaps Roger Anna was inspired by this model.  Very Happy  And now a bonus shot of a close-up of Britains Suffolk Mare:


Oh, actually I wasn't aware of this model  Embarassed , I should know Britains figures better but I mainly know Britains which appear on forum more often.
I think it's lovely figure indeed!  cheers  Interesting they painted mane and tail black (or very very dark brown), it's not very often seen in chestnut horses.
Anyway, now I feel inspired! Maybe I will remake mane on one copy of my Suffolk mare to have similar braids like this one Very Happy
And, as Suffolks are one of my favourite horse breeds I think I will search this Britains figure to my collection Very Happy


Anna

Please accept my apologies. I honestly thought that you have seen Britains' Suffolk Mare before. It is a fairly common model but perhaps my images were the first ones on STS?

I have just looked at some real Suffolk horses on the net and I agree that Britains colour combination is strange.

Hopefully, these images have inspired you to do a version with braided mane and tail. There are a number of images on the net that show this in detail.

Dear Chris,
I don't see reason you should apologise me for. If I knew this figure earlier it would surely be one of my favourite Very Happy and probably would inspire me too. Now I'm thinking about some braids for my Suffolk mare, just to see if it suits her Very Happy

If I would say about inspiration for this Mojo mare other than Suffolks photos I would mention old Schleich chestnut draft mare, I like this figure very much. Very Happy

I'm not sure if it's first time when the model is shown on forum, but it must be first photo showing this figure individually here, probably. I think wild animals of Britains are more often to see on STS, farm animals we see only form time to time. And of course i didn't know Britains before I joined this forum (I think we've never had this company in Polish toy shops, except, of course Chinese  poor  copies )  Smile


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
.....  Interesting they painted mane and tail black (or very very dark brown), it's not very often seen in chestnut horses.
....

You are so right. A horse with black mane/tail is NOT chestnut, it is bay  Laughing 

That is the phaenotype definition of a chestnut, - the mane/tail is never darker that the body.
Geneticly a chestnut is ee, which means " not-black". This means that black colour is as impossible as it is that she would grow a trunk  lol! 


Yes, I know normally chestnut don't have black mane but I mean maybe it was very very dark brown.
Also, I knew horse with black mane and tail would be bay but this figure has no black on legs as bay horse would. That's why I was thinking perhaps they showing horse of the colour like on Lea's photos (these I would say have probably very dark brown coloured mane and tail scratch)  Also I though chestnut because it's described as Suffolk Punch-they are only chestnut.

BTW, I wonder about so called sooty,  something like sooty chestnut horse would also have dozen of black hair?  study 

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Chestnuts can have a mane and tail darker than their body colour; even still, it won't be black (even though it can [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] pretty [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]) - it'll be just another shade of pheomelanin brown like [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (scroll down a bit to the trotting Laramie) or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Chestnuts can also have a near-gray manes like [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

Very interesting examples, thank you for sharing Lea! I wonder if Britains company wanted to show Suffolk in this shade of chestnut or they confused bay with chestnut  a bit?

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:24 am

Yes, many chestnuts have some dark chestnut hairs in the tail.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
....... Chestnuts can also have a near-gray manes like [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].


Those are bays  with silver mane/tail Wink

This one : [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is silver dappeled black, it is certainly not a chestnut Wink


Anna, not all bays have black legs. And certainly not model horses  Laughing  They are called aguti bays..for some strange reason Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:42 am

Ha, so now I'm very confused! :shock:I didn't know about bays without any black on legs, I heard only about some of them having less black than others (wild bay or something like that?) So this information is like "wow" for me! Very Happy 
Then this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is it "aguti bay" or chestnut with almost black mane? From all photos this one looks most similar to the Britains Suffolk  scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:24 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
.....
 
Then this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is it "aguti bay" or chestnut with almost black mane? From all photos this one looks most similar to the Britains Suffolk  scratch

Yes Very Happy
EXACTLY  cheers 
The picture is taken in low sun, so it is not very trustworthy, though.
But that horse is NOT chestnut !!!!!
The only "safe" sign of bay is the mane/tail. As far as I can see, the tips of the ears are black also.

But be aware that a silver gene makes the mane on a bay grey-ish Wink
( The silver gene is 100% invisible on a chestnut. People who talk of a "silver chestnut" are wrong. It does not exist as phaenotype. Those horses are bay .)

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:07 pm

I'm absolutely no expert and admit to not having dug into the below referenced animals' ancestry with any great diligence, but even so I have to disagree on some points here.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes, many chestnuts have some dark chestnut hairs in the tail.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
....... Chestnuts can also have a near-gray manes like [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

Those are bays  with silver mane/tail Wink

No, sorry. If you go and look at their pedigrees [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you can see they're made up out of clear chestnuts with no mislabeled silver bays to be seen. Bays are a minority in Finnhorses anyway, making up 4-5% of the current population, and typically come in a pretty clear red bay, oft with pangaré. While wild bay is occasionally seen, I've never seen it with the dark in the legs completely absent; it instead comes expressed most typically as black over the joints only. I've seen one wild bay Finnhorse where the black was restricted to the pastern only, but even then it was very clearly there, and not an absence of eumelanin in the legs.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

This one : [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is silver dappeled black, it is certainly not a chestnut Wink

It's a chestnut, sorry. The same thing: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you can access both his pedigree and a total of 133 sired foals (the majority of which have several photographs each of them) and you'll see the horse's parents are both chestnut (following the unphotographed chestnut parent's pedigree, you'll see clear-legged chestnut after another - no blacks, no bays; there are several light-legged dark chestnuts there, though, just like Liptus is). As for the offspring, it's nigh all chestnut with even a fair few dark gray-maned chestnuts like the sire himself. His few bay offpring, for what it's worth - pictures here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - are all plain bay.

Less than one percent of Finnhorses are black (and in all likelihood - I say this as silver hasn't been yet gathered official statistics on - even less of those are silver black, then). The few silver lines in Finnhorses are pretty well known; you may access a list with linked pictures [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. The gray-maned chestnuts are fairly common in Finnhorses. (Several other European coldblood breeds and some of the British pony breeds quite regularly have them, too.) In a breed like the Finnhorse where bay is a rare colour to begin with, wild bay naturally even rarer, and silver probably rarer still, the hundreds of grey-maned, clear-legged chestnuts can hardly be extreme wild bay silvers; the grey manes just happen on chestnuts. Here are some more chestnut Finnhorses with them: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (not a sooty palomino, just a light chestnut), [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (pedigree and offspring accessible [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]).


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
That is the phaenotype definition of a chestnut, - the mane/tail is never darker that the body.
It can be; it isn't that uncommon. See below for more Don examples.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
.....
 
Then this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is it "aguti bay" or chestnut with almost black mane? From all photos this one looks most similar to the Britains Suffolk  scratch

Yes Very Happy
EXACTLY  cheers 
The picture is taken in low sun, so it is not very trustworthy, though.
But that horse is NOT chestnut !!!!!
The only "safe" sign of bay is the mane/tail. As far as I can see, the tips of the ears are black also.

But be aware that a silver gene makes the mane on a bay grey-ish Wink
( The silver gene is 100% invisible on a chestnut. People who talk of a "silver chestnut" are wrong. It does not exist as phaenotype. Those horses are bay .)

The horse pictured, Talas/Талас, is a Don; [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] another shot of him. They're a predominantly chestnut breed where a clear chestnut coat colour paired with a mane and tail variously darker than the body colour is not uncommon; [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. You can find several more similar chestnuts by searching for the breed.

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:44 pm

Hi Lea, Susanne and Anna

I would have never thought that a toy horse by Britains I bought for a £1 could raise issues regarding horse genetics!  Very Happy 

Also Lea and Susanne I am in awe of your knowledge of horse genetics.

STS is truly amazing!

Anna - looks like I need to show more of my Britains farm animal collection as individual images. I do have a few more horses to post.

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:06 am

[quote="Chris Sweetman]

Anna - looks like I need to show more of my Britains farm animal collection as individual images. I do have a few more horses to post.
[/quote]

That is genetically and colorfully a great idea. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:28 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
\"Chris Sweetman wrote:


Anna - looks like I need to show more of my Britains farm animal collection as individual images. I do have a few more horses to post.

That is genetically and colorfully a great idea. Very Happy

OK Roger here is one:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], on Flickr

Anna - this one also has a braided mane.

Susanne and Lea - I would be interested to know the genetics of this one.

BTW it is made by Britains but was not sold by them. Instead it was a special design supplied to another famous British toy maker - Tri-ang. Tri-ang used it as a load for a BMC Horse Transporter and for an open horse box towed by a Land-Rover. It was made in the mid 1960’s and was to a larger scale than Britains usual 1:32nd scale.

The design was based on one Britains used in 1:32nd scale to pull their light weight horse drawn vehicles. This was based on one made in hollow-cast and later in plastic and was referred to as a "skinny horse”.

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:11 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


Anna - looks like I need to show more of my Britains farm animal collection as individual images. I do have a few more horses to post.

That is genetically and colorfully a great idea. Very Happy


Yes, I think the same! Maybe Chris could send photos in separate topic in case of horse with unbraided manes? Very Happy 


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

OK Roger here is one:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], on Flickr

Anna - this one also has a braided mane.

Susanne and Lea - I would be interested to know the genetics of this one.

BTW it is made by Britains but was not sold by them. Instead it was a special design supplied to another famous British toy maker - Tri-ang. Tri-ang used it as a load for a BMC Horse Transporter and for an open horse box towed by a Land-Rover. It was made in the mid 1960’s and was to a larger scale than Britains usual 1:32nd scale.

The design was based on one Britains used in 1:32nd scale to pull their light weight horse drawn vehicles. This was based on one made in hollow-cast and later in plastic and was referred to as a "skinny horse”.


Ha, I think colour of this horse is almost as confusing as Suffolk mare's colour (despite the fact that all Suffolk Punch horses in real life are chestnut). But, because this one is in a bit more reddish shade and has dark hooves, maybe it's more probable to say it's bay with almost no black on legs. Probably Briatins simplified painting and usually do not painted black legs as it would be in typical bay, but they probably thought about painting bay horse? Does it sound reasonable?   scratch  study  Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:21 pm

Skinny looks a relatively young horse to me! geek OK, I know, someone more knowledgeable with horses will say that he is not young, he only hasn't eaten too much these days. Very Happy
It is a lovely figure and thanks for additional information. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Skinny looks a relatively young horse to me! :geek:OK, I know, someone more knowledgeable with horses will say that he is not young, he only hasn't eaten too much these days.  Very Happy
It is a lovely figure and thanks for additional information. Very Happy


The body type of this one reminds me of horses in type called [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]   Usually quite skinny horses suitable for light work.   Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:56 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Skinny looks a relatively young horse to me! :geek:OK, I know, someone more knowledgeable with horses will say that he is not young, he only hasn't eaten too much these days.  Very Happy
It is a lovely figure and thanks for additional information. Very Happy


The body type of this one reminds me of horses in type called [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]   Usually quite skinny horses suitable for light work.   Smile

Thanks for information, Ana! :)

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:38 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], on Flickr

Anna - this one also has a braided mane.

Susanne and Lea - I would be interested to know the genetics of this one.

I wonder if I haven't trampled on some toes already, butting in with the genetics of the previous one - but as requested: The colour of the "skinny horse" is nearly as unlikely as is the Suffolk's, I'm afraid. The black mane and tail would make it a bay, but it doesn't have a whiff of black on its legs, which even for a wild bay - the type of bay where the black on the legs is reduced in extent - would be a rare thing indeed.

The realism of coat colours in toy horses isn't something many manufacturers appear to lose sleep over even today; certainly with the older figurines it must have been considered a non-issue entirely - plus there is the fact that the genetics and mechanisms of colour development and heredity haven't been particularly widely understood for long, so mistakes have been easy to make even if the manufacturers were trying to pay attention to that aspect of their figurines.

"Assigning" older equine figurines colour, if you will, according to what real-world option closest suits their existing paintwork, is likely a concern these days mostly for model horse collectors wishing to compete with these models in classes where realism makes a difference in the placings - it can be fun, of course, but not always terribly fruitful.

I cannot tell for certain by the one photo alone, but it looks like the figurine has its mane scalloped - that is, braided [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. This is a braid rarely seen anymore, as it's rather a labour-intensive one to create; it's made by braiding small, loose braids in a mid-length mane, then joining up the end of each to the beginning of the next by string. It was seen a lot more in the riding hacks and ladies' hunters of the past, though, as was the evenly-trimmed, hock-length tail the model sports. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you can see a 1939 hunter with a cut-even tail and braids (though not scalloped) on a tobacco card from Player's Cigarettes.

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:16 pm

Lea, thanks for this information. I have posted some more images of the ’skinny horse’ here:

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Looking at your link to the scalloped mane and the Tri-ang Britains horse I agree on this description.

BTW on Britains 1:32nd scale ‘skinny horse’ this does have even-cut tail.

Anna - I agree with your recognition and this horse model does look like a hack. And again Britains used skinny to pull lightweight carriages.

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:13 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I cannot tell for certain by the one photo alone, but it looks like the figurine has its mane scalloped - that is, braided [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. This is a braid rarely seen anymore, as it's rather a labour-intensive one to create; it's made by braiding small, loose braids in a mid-length mane, then joining up the end of each to the beginning of the next by string. It was seen a lot more in the riding hacks and ladies' hunters of the past, though, as was the evenly-trimmed, hock-length tail the model sports. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you can see a 1939 hunter with a cut-even tail and braids (though not scalloped) on a tobacco card from Player's Cigarettes.


Wow, braiding mane like is almost artistic work, it had to take so much time, patience and precision. I haven't seen one like that, even on photos, before. Thank you for sharing Lea!  Applause 

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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:10 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I love your photos Susanne!  cheers Certainly there are many decorations to be found in model horses nowadays.

I'm no horse owner myself(except for miniatures), but I have an impression, that braiding and such is quite normal and ok in horse business. As long as the horse is groomed, happy and well cared for, I guess they don't care if their onwers make a little braid or two?  scratch cheers 

Ofcourse, braiding in horse figurines, make them more of characters, than just a reperesentation of a certain breed, I think.

2014 Frisian Mare looks fine in your photos. I'm looking forward to see her on shops...

By the way, the old Schleich Hanoverian Mare, she has also a styled mane  sunny

Of course it's normal for real horses to have braids; they're braided for showing! I can find LOTS of links to real horses with braided manes and tails. And many model horses have braids; I have one on a shelf over my head which has 2 braids in the tail. Model horses with braids are based on a snapshot in time of a real horse. Horses used for sports like dressage or jumping are usually braided to keep the manes out of the riders' eyes. The toy companies know this, so they base their braided horses on real horses braided for shows.

BTW, in case no-one here knows - many Schleichs, Papos, and Safari horses are shown both in photo shows and at live shows by model horse hobbyists. I certain do!
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PostSubject: Re: Braids and other fun for horses :-)   Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:59 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
BTW, in case no-one here knows - many Schleichs, Papos, and Safari horses are shown both in photo shows and at live shows by model horse hobbyists.  I certain do!


Jenny, that's interesting! I think that Breyer is the brand that is often present in this kind of events but I remember people commenting about other brands figures being used too. About Papo I think it is the first time I am reading. Very Happy
I hope you have the chance of sharing your experiences and collection with us. flower

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