Forum dedicated to collectors of animal toy replicas
 
Toy animal WikiToy animal Wiki  HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  Dictionary  Animal Toy forum  

Share | 
 

 Smilodon figurine accuracy

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:33 pm

Hello everyone

I have generated a list, IMHO of course,  of the 5 best and 5 worst mainstream Smilodon figurines, based only on morphology and scientific accuracy.

5 Best (in no particular order)

Safari Missing Links Smilodon (1997)
Mojo Smilodon
AAA (large version) Smilodon         (great casting, except the tail is way to long)
Safari Carnegie Smilodon (1988)
1998 Bullyland Smilodon



5 Worst (in no particular order)

Papo Smilodon             
Bullyland (2013) Smilodon
Schleich Smilodon
CollectA (2009)
Kinto Favorite Soft model Smilodon  


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:39 pm; edited 14 times in total
Back to top Go down
SUSANNE
Admin
avatar

Country/State : Denmark, the peninsula of Djursland.
Age : 65
Joined : 2010-09-30
Posts : 31084

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:30 pm

Great topic cheers

For those who do not have ( so many ) smilodonts, you can see here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Very Happy

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] SUSANNE   [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
http://dyr-og-dimser.dk
widukind

avatar

Country/State : Germany
Age : 41
Joined : 2010-12-30
Posts : 26682

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:38 pm

Interesting topic:)

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Andreas [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:50 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Great topic cheers

For those who do not have ( so many ) smilodonts, you can see here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Very Happy

Thanks Susanne
That link is very helpful
Back to top Go down
Bloodrayne

avatar

Country/State : Netherlands
Age : 48
Joined : 2012-12-14
Posts : 1453

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:27 pm

Papo's Smilodon is my favourite, just because it looks better than the rest of them.
But I'm no paleontology expert at all.
So I don't know what a Smilodon is supposed to look like.

If you could please explain what you think is wrong with its body type and based on what information, I would be very eager to learn?

Thanks. Very Happy

_________________
Simone  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:39 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Papo's Smilodon is my favourite, just because it looks better than the rest of them.
But I'm no paleontology expert at all.
So I don't know what a Smilodon is supposed to look like.

If you could please explain what you think is wrong with its body type and based on what information, I would be very eager to learn?

Thanks. Very Happy


The morphology of the Papo Smilodon is very wrong.  The cat was very stocky and muscular, almost bear like in build.  The Papo cat is built like a very slender modern day cougar.  From certain angles, it even looks canine like to me.  If one was to look up information from numerous books on this cat all paleontologists are in agreement that Smilodon was extremely stocky with very large shoulder and neck muscles and very thick and muscular forelimbs...this is not what we see with the Papo Smilodon figurine. The Papo figure is very slender and not so cat like in its face.  Also, according to experts and numerous fossil remains, Smilodon"s sabers were knife like in shape with a noticeable curve and quite pointed at the ends (Mojo Smilodon got this perfect).  The Papo figure sabers are cone shaped and very blunt,  almost tusk like in appearance.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:18 pm; edited 8 times in total
Back to top Go down
Bloodrayne

avatar

Country/State : Netherlands
Age : 48
Joined : 2012-12-14
Posts : 1453

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:44 am

Thank you for your explanation
Papo's smilodon does look more like a modern cat, instead of a bearlike creature.
Never liked the other figures much because they looked so bulky.
But now I know that's what a Smilodon should look like, heheh.

I don't think Papo can do much about the bluntness of the teeth though.
It still is supposed to be a children's toy.

_________________
Simone  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
SUSANNE
Admin
avatar

Country/State : Denmark, the peninsula of Djursland.
Age : 65
Joined : 2010-09-30
Posts : 31084

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:27 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
......
Never liked the other figures much because they looked so bulky.
But now I know that's what a Smilodon should look like, heheh.
.......

We learn a lot here, don't we ? Laughing Laughing
Like you, I did not know that Smilodons were very bulky, before I joined this Forum study  drunken
I thought they were just like a cugar with long teeth Very Happy

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] SUSANNE   [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
http://dyr-og-dimser.dk
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Thank you for your explanation
Papo's smilodon does look more like a modern cat, instead of a bearlike creature.
Never liked the other figures much because they looked so bulky.
But now I know that's what a Smilodon should look like, heheh.

I don't think Papo can do much about the bluntness of the teeth though.
It still is supposed to be a children's toy.


Your welcome Simone.
Brian Very Happy


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Bloodrayne

avatar

Country/State : Netherlands
Age : 48
Joined : 2012-12-14
Posts : 1453

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
......
Never liked the other figures much because they looked so bulky.
But now I know that's what a Smilodon should look like, heheh.
.......

We learn a lot here, don't we ? Laughing Laughing
Like you, I did not know that Smilodons were very bulky, before I joined this Forum study  drunken
I thought they were just like a cugar with long teeth Very Happy

The fact that some people call it Sabertooth tiger doesn't really help either. Laughing
It implies it looks like a tiger.
Just like people say Koala bear, which isn't a bear at all.

_________________
Simone  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:46 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
......
Never liked the other figures much because they looked so bulky.
But now I know that's what a Smilodon should look like, heheh.
.......

We learn a lot here, don't we ? Laughing Laughing
Like you, I did not know that Smilodons were very bulky, before I joined this Forum study  drunken
I thought they were just like a cugar with long teeth Very Happy

The fact that some people call it Sabertooth tiger doesn't really help either.  Laughing
It implies it looks like a tiger.
Just like people say Koala bear, which isn't a bear at all.


That's an excellent point Simone.
Back to top Go down
scot(t)

avatar

Country/State : USA
Age : 49
Joined : 2012-03-03
Posts : 3000

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:53 am

We should get some pictures up in this thread. It would make it extremely helpful.

I think my favorite easily-available smilodon is the Wild Safari version. It's too bad it is striped liked a tiger, but otherwise, I like it a lot. The Mojo is a good figure and may indeed be the most accurate. But it's a bit static and feels a bit clumsily sculpted in some respects. (Not nearly as bad as the CollectA or the Schleich, for sure, but still…like Susanne's mentioned elsewhere, the fact that the paintwork has "shading" in it is off-putting.) The Wild Safari is more dynamic and naturally posed, at least to my eyes. So despite the claim to accuracy, the Mojo fun is not at the top of my list of wanted smilodons. (I only own the Papo, which I've come to like less and less -- not to mention the fact that it's not scientifically accurate at all.) If it were easily available, I'd get the missing links figure in a second. That's such a great model.

smilodoncalifornicus, I'm curious to know what do you think of the Kaiyodo model? or the recent one by Favorite Co. (Kinto)? Or the old [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] version?
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
We should get some pictures up in this thread. It would make it extremely helpful.

I think my favorite easily-available smilodon is the Wild Safari version. It's too bad it is striped liked a tiger, but otherwise, I like it a lot. The Mojo is a good figure and may indeed be the most accurate. But it's a bit static and feels a bit clumsily sculpted in some respects. (Not nearly as bad as the CollectA or the Schleich, for sure, but still…like Susanne's mentioned elsewhere, the fact that the paintwork has "shading" in it is off-putting.) The Wild Safari is more dynamic and naturally posed, at least to my eyes. So despite the claim to accuracy, the Mojo fun is not at the top of my list of wanted smilodons. (I only own the Papo, which I've come to like less and less -- not to mention the fact that it's not scientifically accurate at all.) If it were easily available, I'd get the missing links figure in a second. That's such a great model.

smilodoncalifornicus, I'm curious to know what do you think of the Kaiyodo model? or the recent one by Favorite Co. (Kinto)? Or the old [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] version?



Hi Scot

I overall agree with your comments on Smilodon. The one area that we may differ in is the importance of poses of the figurine, in whether it is static or dramatic, etc.  Of great importance to me in a Smilodon figure is its morphology and scientific accuracy.  I do not think the Mojo Smilodon is perfect by any means. For one thing, I think that it's back legs are to long. Also I think it's tail is not great, particularly how the end is painted. Overall though I believe as yourself, it's one of the more accurate Smilodons available.   I am especially impressed with the Mojo cat's saber teeth. They are beautifully curved and knife like and I think so vastly superior to any other figurine in this area. I am also very impressed with its paint scheme. I am a big fan of Smilodons that are just plain tan in color more like a modern lion with no markings at all.
The biggest problem I have with so many Smilodon figurines made, is when they are sculpted slender and modern cat like in shape.  The experts have all stated that Smilodon was very stocky, more so even in its frontal regions and very different in morphology to modern day cats.  In this respect, I think the Carnegie Smilodon figurine is unbeatable. 
To answer your question of what I think of the Kaiyodo Smilodon, I will say I am not a fan of it. It's my humble opinion that this figurine has much to long legs, especially the back legs. I think it's morphology is more modern cat shaped and the mouth and head look odd to me.  The old Marx figure is way too slender in build, in fact that one looks too slender and thin for even a modern cat, let alone Smilodon.  The Kinto favorite Smilodon sculpting in my eyes is much to regular and modern cat like in morphology and with much too long back legs. In this figure, it looks like the back legs are even longer than the already too long front legs.  I realize my unfavorable reviews of all these particular Smilodonts sounds like a broken record,  to slender, modern cat like in morphology,  etc, etc.,  but these are areas I believe most Smilodon figurines are guilty of making their sculpting like.   I believe very few of them are sculpted correctly and with a stocky build.

My personal favorites are the Missing link, Mojo & Safari's Carnegie Smilodon.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:32 pm; edited 17 times in total
Back to top Go down
elephas_maximus

avatar

Joined : 2011-11-24
Posts : 484

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:15 am

smilodoncalifornicus: Since you mainly collect smilodons, do you know of this model?  It seems to be the stocky build youre describing with heavy forequarters.
This is a 3D printed model in blue plastic, the seller makes prehistoric models and sells them on eBay.
Here is their store:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

all artwork belongs to eBay seller: tams7prairie
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/redelephant
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:01 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
smilodoncalifornicus: Since you mainly collect smilodons, do you know of this model?  It seems to be the stocky build youre describing with heavy forequarters.
This is a 3D printed model in blue plastic, the seller makes prehistoric models and sells them on eBay.
Here is their store:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

all artwork belongs to eBay seller: tams7prairie
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]




Hello
No I haven't seen this sculpting of Smilodon.  Now that is quite impressive and I believe very good in morphology. I appreciate you posting these pictures. I would buy that sculpting in a second for my collection, and I will check out the link you sent. Very interesting. Wink
Back to top Go down
elephas_maximus

avatar

Joined : 2011-11-24
Posts : 484

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:00 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Hello
No I haven't seen this sculpting of Smilodon.  Now that is quite impressive and I believe very good in morphology. I appreciate you posting these pictures. I would buy that sculpting in a second for my collection, and I will check out the link you sent. Very interesting. Wink

No problem, the seller doesn't list any smilodons at the moment but perhaps you can just message them and ask for another print.  I believe the model was 1/24th scale and around USD $20.
Back to top Go down
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/redelephant
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Hello
No I haven't seen this sculpting of Smilodon.  Now that is quite impressive and I believe very good in morphology. I appreciate you posting these pictures. I would buy that sculpting in a second for my collection, and I will check out the link you sent. Very interesting. Wink

No problem, the seller doesn't list any smilodons at the moment but perhaps you can just message them and ask for another print.  I believe the model was 1/24th scale and around USD $20.



I will definately do that, and I love that scale. Thanks for all the info
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:19 pm

Smilodon’s elongated canine teeth were more vulnerable to fracture than those of modern living felids, making it imperative for them to immobilize prey quickly with their forelimbs when making a kill.  As a result, Smilodon had very heavily muscled forelimbs which greatly exceeded those of modern felids. This cat used more of a wrestler style takedown method of prey than what modern cats used.
Smilodon differed from extant felids in its greater ability to subdue prey using the forelimbs. This enhanced forelimb strength was designed to minimize the struggles of prey in order to protect the elongate canines from fracture and position the sabers for a quick stabbing like kill, most likely in the side of the neck.  In order for this to be done, Smilodon had to have been very stocky in morphology up front compared to modern living big cats.

This above reference from a Paleontologist expert on Smilodon is why I think the morphology
of the Papo Smilodon figurine is so lousy and inaccurate.  The Papo Smilodon is the complete opposite of what we see referenced above, with skinny dog-like forelimbs and a terribly slender body type.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:06 pm; edited 6 times in total
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:19 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Interesting topic:)


Thanks Andreas
Back to top Go down
sabulia



Country/State : United Kingdom
Age : 65
Joined : 2014-07-29
Posts : 48

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:24 am

What about the newish Favorite model and the excellent Dinotales (Kaiyodo) model?
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:28 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What about the newish Favorite model and the excellent Dinotales (Kaiyodo) model?


Hello
I am not at all a fan of the Favorite model Smilodon or the Kaiyodo version.  I stated earlier in this  
discussion what I thought about these two figurines.  Both these two figures to me are much to regular and modern cat shaped with the wrong morphology completely, especially the Favorite Smilodon. In fact, I don't find anything that is accurate about the Favorite Smilodon , IMHO.  This is the one animal that I think companies have a very difficult time sculpting correctly.  
When it comes to mainstream Smilodon figures, I believe that only a very few are scientifically accurate at all.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:45 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top Go down
sabulia



Country/State : United Kingdom
Age : 65
Joined : 2014-07-29
Posts : 48

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:38 am

Sorry I missed that text
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:06 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Sorry I missed that text

No problem at all
Back to top Go down
Tupolew Tu-154

avatar

Country/State : Airport
Age : 36
Joined : 2010-11-12
Posts : 883

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:31 pm

I like the safari and the new collecta 2015 smilodon. The 2013 bullyland is ok, perhaps a juvenile or another breed of sabertooth cat.

The worst are the Mojo one, the Schleich one and the older one from Collecta.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:05 pm

Here is a slight revision of the best & worst mainstream Smilodonts based on scientific accuracy:
  

5 best  (in no particular order)


Mojo Smilodon
Safari Missing Link Smilodon (1997)
Safari Carnegie Smilodon (1988)
AAA Smilodon (large version)
1998 Bullyland Smilodon






5 worst  (in no particular order)


Papo Smilodon  
2013 Bullyland Smilodon
Schleich Smilodon
CollectA (2009)
Marx / MPC Smilodon

Kinto Favorite soft model Smilodon, imho, could easily be on the 5 worst list as well


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:28 pm; edited 19 times in total
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:15 pm

If I had to pick the most scientifically accurate Smilodon of the 5 best list from above, that would have to go to Safari's Carnegie sculpting from 1988.  In looking at this sculpting of Smilodon, it has all the ingredients for accuracy in place.  The stocky frontal regions, with the more diminutive rear quarters.  The relatively smaller head compared to body size.  The relatively longer,  powerfully built neck, high shoulders, and extremely thick and muscular forelimbs.  Also this sculpting has the limbs shorter like the real cat's were.  
Its no wonder why this sculpting is so accurate overall.  The Carnegie Museum in Pittsburgh is one of the world's foremost museums and famous for its work in Paleontology.  This Smilodon sculpting was based on paleontology research, so it has alot of scientific accuracy.   Forest Rodgers was the paleo-sculptor for the Carnegie line.  In 1987 an acquaintance of hers was doing some mold making at the Carnegie museum, and contacted her about the museum's prehistoric animal model plans.  She agreed to take on the project. I'm glad she did, so we could have such great figurines like this in our collections.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:04 pm; edited 5 times in total
Back to top Go down
john2xtheman

avatar

Country/State : u.s.a.
Age : 43
Joined : 2013-10-06
Posts : 202

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:31 pm

If you would like to see a rocket launcher brought to a knife fight (so to speak) between Smilodon figures,then here is the definitive Smilodon fatalis model. Very Happy

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

_________________
John  
Back to top Go down
Wilorvise

avatar

Country/State : Michigan, USA
Age : 33
Joined : 2014-08-24
Posts : 2111

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:43 pm

oooo... shiny

_________________
Laura
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:52 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If you would like to see a rocket launcher brought to a knife fight (so to speak) between Smilodon figures,then here is the definitive Smilodon fatalis model. Very Happy

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Just from what I can see from that angle, it looks real decent, but I do not agree with your analogy. The Carnegie Smilodon is excellent in morphology, and I believe every bit as accurate as that sculpting, if not more. It may not be sculpted as artistically well, or detailed, but from a pure
scientific accuracy standpoint and how the build is, the Carnegie Smilodon is excellent.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
john2xtheman

avatar

Country/State : u.s.a.
Age : 43
Joined : 2013-10-06
Posts : 202

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:11 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If you would like to see a rocket launcher brought to a knife fight (so to speak) between Smilodon figures,then here is the definitive Smilodon fatalis model. Very Happy

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Just from what I can see from that angle, it looks real decent, but I do not agree with your analogy. The Carnegie Smilodon is excellent in morphology, and I believe every bit as accurate as that sculpting, if not more. It may not be scuplted as artistically well, or detailed, but from a pure
scientific accuracy standpoint and how the build is, the Carnegie Smilodon is excellent.

As nice as the original one still is,imagine how nice a new sculpt of Smilodon would be if one came from the Carnegie Collection now.With Forrest Rogers still making models for that line,it would not only have the accuracy of the old one,but also crisp detail that would blow all the others from any other line out of the water. Very Happy

_________________
John  
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:41 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If you would like to see a rocket launcher brought to a knife fight (so to speak) between Smilodon figures,then here is the definitive Smilodon fatalis model. Very Happy

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Just from what I can see from that angle, it looks real decent, but I do not agree with your analogy. The Carnegie Smilodon is excellent in morphology, and I believe every bit as accurate as that sculpting, if not more. It may not be scuplted as artistically well, or detailed, but from a pure
scientific accuracy standpoint and how the build is, the Carnegie Smilodon is excellent.

As nice as the original one still is,imagine how nice a new sculpt of Smilodon would be if one came from the Carnegie Collection now.With Forrest Rogers still making models for that line,it would not only have the accuracy of the old one,but also crisp detail that would blow all the others from any other line out of the water. Very Happy


Thats a great point.  I agree. As great as the scientific accuracy of the old Carnegie Smilodon figure is, the detailing, particularly in the face and saber teeth could be improved for sure. I think they could make the same style figure and build as they already have, just improve the details as you stated.
Back to top Go down
GiselleGazelle

avatar

Country/State : South Wales, UK
Age : 21
Joined : 2014-12-16
Posts : 21

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:05 am

I think the Carnegie one is really ugly to be honest and much prefer the Papo one despite the inaccuracy. But I think my favourite has to be the 2015 CollectA version. I consider myself very knowledgable in dinosaur paleontology but not so much with prehistoric mammals, so have no idea how accurate it it.
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:39 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think the Carnegie one is really ugly to be honest and much prefer the Papo one despite the inaccuracy. But I think my favourite has to be the 2015 CollectA version. I consider myself very knowledgable in dinosaur paleontology but not so much with prehistoric mammals, so have no idea how accurate it it.


Well I think the complete opposite of you, but that's ok....that's what makes the world go around.   Your abrupt comment about the Carnegie Smilodon tells me that you would think a real Smilodon would be ugly then, and that you would much prefer Smilodon to look like a skinny canine, like the Papo Smilodon does.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
scot(t)

avatar

Country/State : USA
Age : 49
Joined : 2012-03-03
Posts : 3000

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:41 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think the Carnegie one is really ugly to be honest and much prefer the Papo one despite the inaccuracy. But I think my favourite has to be the 2015 CollectA version. I consider myself very knowledgable in dinosaur paleontology but not so much with prehistoric mammals, so have no idea how accurate it it.


Well I think the complete opposite of you, but that's ok....that's what makes the world go around.   Your comment about the Carnegie Smilodon tells me that you would think a real Smilodon would be ugly then, and that you would prefer Smilodon to look like a skinny canine, like the Papo Smilodon does.

To be fair to GiselleGazelle's post, I don't think her comment in any way implies that a real Smilodon would be ugly. One can claim that a sculpt is ugly without thinking that the object it is representing must be ugly. I can easily imagine two painters creating a portrait of me. One uses an expressive style and strays far from representing the aspects of me which are, for those who know me, most characteristic. The result may be beautiful, but look nothing like me. The other painter, we can imagine, is not terribly talented, but focuses entirely on ensuring that the portrait is recognizedly a portrait of me.

The second portrait may be turn out to be much more accurate, but still a terrible (and ugly) piece of art. It doesn't follow that I'm ugly. (Thank goodness.) This is the idea underlying GiselleGazelle's comment.

Although I like the Carnegie Smilodon, I happen to agree with her basic point. One can put aside considerations of accuracy and ask whether a sculpt is aesthetically pleasing, including even whether it is "realistic-looking." (We have an idea of things looking "realistic" and "natural" even when they fail to fit the proportions of the object they are meant to represent.) I don't know enough about Hippos to judge which model most accurately represents actual Hippos, but the Papo Bull and Cow are so much more "life-like," so much more beautifully sculpted, so much more arresting in their poses, than the CollectA, Schleichs, or even the Mojo Fun. (And I'm a fan of the Mojo.) Those Papos Hippos are just awesome.

I'm not saying accuracy doesn't matter. I'm just pointing out that it's only one consideration among many. I'm also saying that regarding an accurate model as ugly does not force one to say that the original is ugly. As I've pointed out in other comments, the Mojo Fun Smilodon may have very accurate proportions, but I think it's a clunky, stiff, and awkward model. Does that mean I think Smilodons were clunky, stiff and awkward? Obviously not. The Mojo may have more accurate proportions, but the Papo sculpt feels more alive and has more movement.

In an ideal world, we would have a sculpt of a Smilodon that combines both accuracy with grace, movement, and that "living" quality that some (but not all) of the best sculpts have. The Lineol Sable springs to mind as both extremely accurate and also utterly beautiful. I'm not sure there is such a model of a Smilodon. I happen to find the Carnegie charming. (I have the old Bullyland, I find it charming, but it is not "life-like" at all. It's kind of silly-looking in many respects.) I also agree with you that the Papo does not look like a Smilodon. Even the Missing Links version could be more "realistic" despite the fact that it is a really nice sculpt. A superb Smilodon is still not available I believe.
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:13 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think the Carnegie one is really ugly to be honest and much prefer the Papo one despite the inaccuracy. But I think my favourite has to be the 2015 CollectA version. I consider myself very knowledgable in dinosaur paleontology but not so much with prehistoric mammals, so have no idea how accurate it it.


Well I think the complete opposite of you, but that's ok....that's what makes the world go around.   Your comment about the Carnegie Smilodon tells me that you would think a real Smilodon would be ugly then, and that you would prefer Smilodon to look like a skinny canine, like the Papo Smilodon does.

To be fair to GiselleGazelle's post, I don't think her comment in any way implies that a real Smilodon would be ugly. One can claim that a sculpt is ugly without thinking that the object it is representing must be ugly. I can easily imagine two painters creating a portrait of me. One uses an expressive style and strays far from representing the aspects of me which are, for those who know me, most characteristic. The result may be beautiful, but look nothing like me. The other painter, we can imagine, is not terribly talented, but focuses entirely on ensuring that the portrait is recognizedly a portrait of me.

The second portrait may be turn out to be much more accurate, but still a terrible (and ugly) piece of art. It doesn't follow that I'm ugly. (Thank goodness.) This is the idea underlying GiselleGazelle's comment.

Although I like the Carnegie Smilodon, I happen to agree with her basic point. One can put aside considerations of accuracy and ask whether a sculpt is aesthetically pleasing, including even whether it is "realistic-looking." (We have an idea of things looking "realistic" and "natural" even when they fail to fit the proportions of the object they are meant to represent.) I don't know enough about Hippos to judge which model most accurately represents actual Hippos, but the Papo Bull and Cow are so much more "life-like," so much more beautifully sculpted, so much more arresting in their poses, than the CollectA, Schleichs, or even the Mojo Fun. (And I'm a fan of the Mojo.) Those Papos Hippos are just awesome.

I'm not saying accuracy doesn't matter. I'm just pointing out that it's only one consideration among many. I'm also saying that regarding an accurate model as ugly does not force one to say that the original is ugly. As I've pointed out in other comments, the Mojo Fun Smilodon may have very accurate proportions, but I think it's a clunky, stiff, and awkward model. Does that mean I think Smilodons were clunky, stiff and awkward? Obviously not. The Mojo may have more accurate proportions, but the Papo sculpt feels more alive and has more movement.

In an ideal world, we would have a sculpt of a Smilodon that combines both accuracy with grace, movement, and that "living" quality that some (but not all) of the best sculpts have. The Lineol Sable springs to mind as both extremely accurate and also utterly beautiful. I'm not sure there is such a model of a Smilodon. I happen to find the Carnegie charming. (I have the old Bullyland, I find it charming, but it is not "life-like" at all. It's kind of silly-looking in many respects.) I also agree with you that the Papo does not look like a Smilodon. Even the Missing Links version could be more "realistic" despite the fact that it is a really nice sculpt. A superb Smilodon is still not available I believe.

Hi Scot
 I myself cannot set aside accuracy and consider aesthetic qualities when that accuracy is so bad that the animal figure doesn't even look anything like the real thing. (Papo Smilodon)
 Now I find the Carnegie Smilodon charming, life like and scientifically realistic all in one. I also find it has a lot of character, with a quite natural as well as dynamic pose.  To my eyes this figure is just about at that superb Smilodon level, other than the sculpting not being very crisp in certain details such as it's saber teeth.

We do seem though to overall agree with many points about certain Smilodon figures.
I also think you have made some valid points.

One thing I have to point out though.  In real life I do think Smilodon would be a odd, and freakishly built cat, quite unlike the graceful proportions of a modern day leopard.  I could understand if one did in fact think the real cat was somewhat ugly. I myself really like how it is described by paleo experts to have looked like, and the Carnegie Smilodon, I believe, looks like what they have described.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:54 pm; edited 8 times in total
Back to top Go down
GiselleGazelle

avatar

Country/State : South Wales, UK
Age : 21
Joined : 2014-12-16
Posts : 21

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:30 pm

Your reply back to me came off as rather abrupt. I wasn't implying I would find a real smilodon ugly. I was merely stating I prefer the Papo figure. This is because I feel the aesthetic quality is higher and the pose is more alive. Myself liking it more has nothing to do with how I'd prefer a real Smilodon's overall body shape to look.
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:38 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Your reply back to me came off as rather abrupt. I wasn't implying I would find a real smilodon ugly. I was merely stating I prefer the Papo figure. This is because I feel the aesthetic quality is higher and the pose is more alive. Myself liking it more has nothing to do with how I'd prefer a real Smilodon's overall body shape to look.

I didn't mean for it to sound that way. I understand now what you meant.  I kindly disagree though that the Papo Smilodon has more of a dynamic pose.  Being that the Carnegie Smilodon is such an older figure, I will admit that it's detail quality is not as crisp as many other modern sculpted figures.  We all have areas that are of more importance to us in these animal figures. With myself it's with scientific accuracy, and in this area I don't think any Smilodon figure can surpass the old Carnegie sculpting.

I have a hard time seeing the aesthetic quality and lively pose of the Papo Smilodon simply because I cannot get past how bad it is scientifically. To myself, if a figure of some animal is so wrong in accuracy and morphology, then it doesn't matter how good it is in poses or artistic styling.  This is just my own take on this.  I understand that to others there are more important factors with a sculpting, and that is perfectly ok.

I want to welcome you to the STS forum.
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:31 pm

It’s kind of funny how other animal figures such as the  T- Rex, Mammoths, Leopards,  etc.,  etc.  get better and better as newer figures of that subject come out,  while the Smilodon figures seems to get worse and worse.

In the Smilodon figurine world, it’s the older figures that are the most accurate scientifically, such as the 1988 Carnegie & 1997 Missing Link figures.  Newer figures, such as the 2009 CollectA & 2011 Papo Smilodonts, to name a few,  are ridiculous looking.  Bullyland's 2013 release of Smilodon to me looks like a starving, sickly built modern day Lion with long canine teeth.  Even the 2015  CollectA  Smilodon, in my eyes at least,  is not entirely accurate scientifically.   I think the new CollectA  Smilodon has much to long and slender front legs and shoulders that are not big enough. Also, it's neck is MUCH to short for Smilodon Fatalis.   Smilodon had a relatively long neck for its body size that was very muscular.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:11 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:33 pm

Another descent figure of Smilodon was the one by  AAA (large version).  This figure is quite impressive,  and I believe,  scientifically sound except for two glaring errors.... First, it's tail is MUCH to long. Secondly, its rear area and legs are to heavy set. Smilodon's back legs in real life were more diminutive than its front legs.  


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:34 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top Go down
sbell

avatar

Country/State : Canada
Age : 42
Joined : 2013-11-06
Posts : 1042

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:40 pm

I would also suggest looking into the new Smilodon model from CollectA--I have both, and the new one is light years ahead of everybody else (I have dozens of Smilodon myself, and had owned even more):

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I just finally got them in my store (Canada is a little slow).

Also, the Kaiyodo Dinotales Smilodon is pretty great as well.
Back to top Go down
http://faunafigures.com/
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:14 am

We have very different views on what a great Smilodon figurine is.  I do not agree that the new CollectA Smilodon is light years ahead of all others.   I believe the old Carnegie Smilodon is much more accurate in body shape / morphology than the CollectA one.  The Carnegie Smilodon has the correct length limbs that  were shorter in real life than modern big cat's limbs and also much thicker 
I think CollectA's new Smilodon has forelimbs that are way to long and slender for a Smilodon, and a neck that is MUCH to short.
To myself, CollectA's Smilodon has several inaccuracy issues.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:21 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top Go down
jarda

avatar

Country/State : Czech Republic
Age : 45
Joined : 2011-01-24
Posts : 884

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:51 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Posting links to your local computer files is not the best idea... lol!
Back to top Go down
sbell

avatar

Country/State : Canada
Age : 42
Joined : 2013-11-06
Posts : 1042

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:53 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
We have very different views on what a great Smilodon figurine is.  I do not agree that the new CollectA Smilodon is light years ahead of all others.   I believe the old Carnegie Smilodon is much, much more accurate in body shape and morphology than the CollectA one.  The Carnegie one is much more stocky with the correct massive forelimbs and bulky frontal areas.  The Kaiyodo and new CollectA ones have very modern cat shapes with more slender forelimbs.  

I am not a fan of either Carnegie Smilodon--the original was too blocky and angular; the later Missing Links model was just a weird scale with the rest of the models in its set. And I don't think that current reconstructions produce an animal that is excessively massive in the front; stronger yes, but within reason.

In general, I tend to be more influenced by reconstructions of anatomists/artists like Mauricion Anton, who knows how to blend the skeletons and create a living representation with them:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Given his interpretation, I find the Dinotale and current CollectA just fine.
Back to top Go down
http://faunafigures.com/
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:11 pm

That's very interesting,  but I myself tend to be more influenced by Paleo artist Charles R. Knight's renditions of Smilodon Fatalis.  I don't think the 2015 CollectA Smilodon looks like the drawing you provided by Mauricion Anton.  His rendition has a lot longer neck and thicker as well as shorter forelimbs than the CollectA figure has.
Most Paleo experts agree that Smilodon had very heavy set frontal regions and noticeably more diminutive rear areas.  I believe the Carnegie Smilodon got this spot on perfect.
The one Smilodon figure that I believe got the saber teeth perfect is the Mojo Smilodon.
The head I believe is oversized compared to it's body, but those saber teeth are so beautifully curved, and knife like. Overall, the Mojo sabertooth is a great figure.
Many Smilodon figurines have the saber teeth blunt and cone shaped with the wrong curvature completely.
.  It's ok that we disagree on this topic.  I just think that the Carnegie & Missing Link figures are among the very few that got the build stocky enough and the limbs short enough.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:10 pm; edited 5 times in total
Back to top Go down
SUSANNE
Admin
avatar

Country/State : Denmark, the peninsula of Djursland.
Age : 65
Joined : 2010-09-30
Posts : 31084

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:51 pm

No matter accuracy, - I just can't WAIT to get this one bounce bounce

I never liked the old CollectA one so much that I bought it...and that says a lot, as I like most cat models Laughing

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] SUSANNE   [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
http://dyr-og-dimser.dk
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:55 pm

I agree with you about the older CollectA Smilodon. I think that one looked ridiculous. The new one is certainly better by far.
Back to top Go down
sbell

avatar

Country/State : Canada
Age : 42
Joined : 2013-11-06
Posts : 1042

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:58 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
That's very interesting and going by those reconstructions, the two figurines you mention are decent renderings,  but I myself tend to be more influenced by Paleo artist Charles R. Knight.
Most Paleo experts agree that Smilodon had very heavy set frontal regions and noticeably more diminutive rear areas.  I believe the Carnegie Smilodon got this spot on perfect, although I will have to admit  
this figurine is lacking in certain details, with very crude saber teeth compared to more modern
figurines.
The one Smilodon figure that I believe got the saber teeth perfect is the Mojo Smilodon.
The body I believe has its problems, but those saber teeth are so beautifully curved, and knife like.
Many Smilodon figurines have the saber teeth blunt and cone shaped with the wrong curvature
completely.
.  It's ok that we disagree on this topic.  I just think that the Carnegie & Missing Link figures are
among the very few that got the build stocky enough and the limbs short enough.

See, I appreciate the old Carnegies, especially the original, as historical pieces, but that's as far as it goes.

As for the sabre teeth, I think most companies are afraid of leaving the teeth sharp for safety reasons, so they dull and blunt them (like a lot of horns, spikes, etc on many animal models). I will admit that the Mojo is a favorite as well!
Back to top Go down
http://faunafigures.com/
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:03 pm

Yes I'm sure your right on the reasons for making the teeth that way.
Back to top Go down
smilodoncalifornicus

avatar

Country/State : USA Minnesota
Age : 51
Joined : 2014-09-11
Posts : 185

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:44 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
We have very different views on what a great Smilodon figurine is.  I do not agree that the new CollectA Smilodon is light years ahead of all others.   I believe the old Carnegie Smilodon is much, much more accurate in body shape and morphology than the CollectA one.  The Carnegie one is much more stocky with the correct massive forelimbs and bulky frontal areas.  The Kaiyodo and new CollectA ones have very modern cat shapes with more slender forelimbs.  

I am not a fan of either Carnegie Smilodon--the original was too blocky and angular; the later Missing Links model was just a weird scale with the rest of the models in its set. And I don't think that current reconstructions produce an animal that is excessively massive in the front; stronger yes, but within reason.

In general, I tend to be more influenced by reconstructions of anatomists/artists like Mauricion Anton, who knows how to blend the skeletons and create a living representation with them:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Given his interpretation, I find the Dinotale and current CollectA just fine.


You mentioned the Missing Link Smilodon figure not being in scale with the rest of the set. I only collect Smilodonts, so I don't even have the rest of that Missing Link set, so the fact that its out of scale is a mute point to me. Do you not like this figure as a Smilodon? How good is it to yourself? To myself its one of the very best made. I think it's style is excellent with overall good scientific accuracy.


Last edited by smilodoncalifornicus on Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
sbell

avatar

Country/State : Canada
Age : 42
Joined : 2013-11-06
Posts : 1042

PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:07 pm

I found the ML too big--it was about the size of the rhino! As well, on a shelf, it looked weird, just because it was as large or larger than most of the mammoth figures!

As a Smilodon, it looked okay. better than the original Carnegie (keeping in mind, my version of that was from the original 1988 run, which was...not a great casting).

_________________
Looking for animal figures? I have an actual online store, out of Canada! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'm also a big freshwater fish-figure fan. Know of anything new and exciting? I need to know as well!
Back to top Go down
http://faunafigures.com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   

Back to top Go down
 
Smilodon figurine accuracy
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 3Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Smilodon figurine accuracy
» Mojo lions, hyena, giraffes, beaver and smilodon... and the Fun started!!!
» Bonsai Figurine workshop
» polystone Seagull figurine
» What is your favourite Safari Ltd animal figurine???

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
STS Forum  :: Animal toy figures reviews and discussions :: General reviews and discussions-
Jump to: