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 Smilodon figurine accuracy

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smilodoncalifornicus

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:21 pm

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I found the ML too big--it was about the size of the rhino! As well, on a shelf, it looked weird, just because it was as large or larger than most of the mammoth figures!

As a Smilodon, it looked okay. better than the original Carnegie (keeping in mind, my version of that was from the original 1988 run, which was...not a great casting).



I agree the original casting of the Carnegie Sabertooth was in a lot of ways crude, especially its saber teeth (they were terrible).  When I state this figure was good, I am only referring to its body morphology / build.  There are numerous more current Smilodonts that have more crisp detail
and improved aesthetics, but most all of those are also very wrong in morphology and scientific accuracy.
The Carnegie & Missing link figures have very good scientific accuracy.


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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:20 pm

Paleontologist Julie Meachen-Samuels of the National Evolutionary Synthesis Center in Durham talking about Smilodon's forelimbs:
“I found that they had exceptionally thick humerus cortical bones—much thicker than any non-saber-toothed cat living or extinct,” said Meachen-Samuels, who used a digital X-ray machine to analyze the limb bones of Smilodon specimens from California’s La Brea Tar Pits in 2010. “I hypothesized that this extreme cortical thickening was correlated with the extremely long sabers. The robust limbs allowed Smilodon to restrain its prey so that it would be able to make a killing bite without damage to its saber teeth.”

The above findings by this Paleontologist are the complete opposite of how almost ALL Smilodon figurines are sculpted.  Most Smilodon figurines are sculpted with very average or even slender forelimbs that are way to long and with more modern cat shaped frontal extremities.   The Carnegie Smilodon however, is sculpted like what the above Paleontologist has described.
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smilodoncalifornicus

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:21 pm

This is the Safari Carnegie Smilodon from my collection.  I have changed its saber teeth, as the original
ones were poorly sculpted. To myself, this figure has the most scientifically accurate body for a Smilodon.
I think this figure most accurately portrays what paleontologists describe when talking about this cat.


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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:23 pm

Cool :)

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:16 pm

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Cool :)

Much appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:28 am

Great work with these teeth. Even if their shape is well known, for many reasons, manufacturers insist in making them wrong. I also like the robuste looking of that figure. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:35 am

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Great work with these teeth. Even if their shape is well known, for many reasons, manufacturers insist in making them wrong. I also like the robuste looking of that figure. Very Happy

Thank you Roger.  I agree with you about the manufacturers sculpting them wrong. I think most of the time, mainstream toy companies get Smilodon's morphology completely wrong.


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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:51 am

I' m sorry I paste my post about CollectA smilodon here because I'm too lazy to write it a second time  Laughing
It is obvious I agree with Sbell, i think M. Anton reconstruction are more realistic and accurate.
A robust forelimb able to restrain a prey must look like a Greco-Roman wrestler musculature, not like a weightlifter or bodybuilder one. Even if it is not a sprinter, a smilodon isn't a static animal.

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I respectfully do not agree about the Mojo figure.  I don't think its too stocky.  I don't even think its stocky enough in certain areas.  The Mojo cats limbs are too long according to fossils and its forelimbs still not built thick enough.  The CollectA figure's forelimbs are MUCH to long and much to slender for a Smilodon.  Look at this:

Paleontologist Julie Meachen-Samuels of the National Evolutionary Synthesis Center in Durham talking about Smilodon's forelimbs:
“I found that they had exceptionally thick humerus cortical bones—much thicker than any non-saber-toothed cat living or extinct,” said Meachen-Samuels, who used a digital X-ray machine to analyze the limb bones of Smilodon specimens from California’s La Brea Tar Pits in 2010.

The CollectA Smilodon to me is not true to skeletons according to this Paleontologist's findings.
There is nothing stocky about the CollectA's forelimbs on that figurine...they are very slender and long, more like a modern extant cats are.

I believe just about 95% of all Smilodon figurines made, are not scientifically accurate at all.

I understand your point but I'm not convinced. Talking about bones and talking about muscles is not the same thing.

Human beings are human beings, same skeletal but with big differences in muscles and shapes.

Some are looking like thin people without big muscles, some with very big muscles, some with more fat than muscles, some...

A marathon runner has a different body than a sprinter.
A weightlifter has a different body than a Body-builder.
A boxer has a different body than a Greco-Roman wrestler.

A Body-builder has a different body than a Greco-Roman wrestler. The body-builder has big static musculature and the Greco-Roman wrestler has a dynamic musculature. The shape is completely different.

IMHO a smilodon isn't a body-builder, no animal can have a body-builder musculature. A smilodon is not hunting like a sprinter or a weightlifter, it was an animal who needed to ambush preys and firmly hold them in place for the killing. The best analogy for me is the Greco-Roman wrestler. Greco-Roman wrestler have a dynamic musculature, powerful but not inflated like body-builder one.

Paleontologist Julie Meachen-Samuels is talking about exceptionally thick humerus cortical bones, not about stocky forelimbs. A thick humerus cortical bones means that smilodon had powerful muscles, not necessarily stocky. Elephants have thick bones, it doesn't mean they have Schwarzenegger body shape.

The other constant reference is the bear like shape. Let's talk about brown bears, grizzlies or polar bears: Powerful animals, hunters, with big bones, very strong forelimbs AND thick fur.

Remove the thick fur and change for a lion fur, far less thick (exept for the mane  Laughing ), bears haven't a body-builder body, they have a dynamic musculature, very powerful but not stocky.

Carnegie or Mojo smilodon are looking as stocky has a polar bear with thick fur but they have short smooth coat. Each time I look at them I think there is something weird.

The CollectA is maybe not perfect but the forelimbs are more powerful than those of the CollectA lion for example. I prefer this one to the Carnegie and even more to the Mojo. Even if my favorite is still the Kaiyodo one  Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:28 am

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I' m sorry I paste my post about CollectA smilodon here because I'm too lazy to write it a second time  Laughing
It is obvious I agree with Sbell, i think M. Anton reconstruction are more realistic and accurate.
A robust forelimb able to restrain a prey must look like a Greco-Roman wrestler musculature, not like a weightlifter or bodybuilder one. Even if it is not a sprinter, a smilodon isn't a static animal.

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I respectfully do not agree about the Mojo figure.  I don't think its too stocky.  I don't even think its stocky enough in certain areas.  The Mojo cats limbs are too long according to fossils and its forelimbs still not built thick enough.  The CollectA figure's forelimbs are MUCH to long and much to slender for a Smilodon.  Look at this:

Paleontologist Julie Meachen-Samuels of the National Evolutionary Synthesis Center in Durham talking about Smilodon's forelimbs:
“I found that they had exceptionally thick humerus cortical bones—much thicker than any non-saber-toothed cat living or extinct,” said Meachen-Samuels, who used a digital X-ray machine to analyze the limb bones of Smilodon specimens from California’s La Brea Tar Pits in 2010.

The CollectA Smilodon to me is not true to skeletons according to this Paleontologist's findings.
There is nothing stocky about the CollectA's forelimbs on that figurine...they are very slender and long, more like a modern extant cats are.

I believe just about 95% of all Smilodon figurines made, are not scientifically accurate at all.

I understand your point but I'm not convinced. Talking about bones and talking about muscles is not the same thing.

Human beings are human beings, same skeletal but with big differences in muscles and shapes.

Some are looking like thin people without big muscles, some with very big muscles, some with more fat than muscles, some...

A marathon runner has a different body than a sprinter.
A weightlifter has a different body than a Body-builder.
A boxer has a different body than a Greco-Roman wrestler.

A Body-builder has a different body than a Greco-Roman wrestler. The body-builder has big static musculature and the Greco-Roman wrestler has a dynamic musculature. The shape is completely different.

IMHO a smilodon isn't a body-builder, no animal can have a body-builder musculature. A smilodon is not hunting like a sprinter or a weightlifter, it was an animal who needed to ambush preys and firmly hold them in place for the killing. The best analogy for me is the Greco-Roman wrestler. Greco-Roman wrestler have a dynamic musculature, powerful but not inflated like body-builder one.

Paleontologist Julie Meachen-Samuels is talking about exceptionally thick humerus cortical bones, not about stocky forelimbs. A thick humerus cortical bones means that smilodon had powerful muscles, not necessarily stocky. Elephants have thick bones, it doesn't mean they have Schwarzenegger body shape.

The other constant reference is the bear like shape. Let's talk about brown bears, grizzlies or polar bears: Powerful animals, hunters, with big bones, very strong forelimbs AND thick fur.

Remove the thick fur and change for a lion fur, far less thick (exept for the mane  Laughing ), bears haven't a body-builder body, they have a dynamic musculature, very powerful but not stocky.

Carnegie or Mojo smilodon are looking as stocky has a polar bear with thick fur but they have short smooth coat. Each time I look at them I think there is something weird.

The CollectA is maybe not perfect but the forelimbs are more powerful than those of the CollectA lion for example. I prefer this one to the Carnegie and even more to the Mojo. Even if my favorite is still the Kaiyodo one  Wink
Hi Christophe
We just have different views on what Smilodon may have looked like, and that's ok. You make 
some valid points, but I believe in real life Smilodon was a very stocky built cat, especially in its frontal areas.  I do not think this cat was shaped anything like extant big cats. I also think that Smilodon had much more muscle mass and muscle development than modern cats do.  Any Paleontologist's findings I have read overwelmingly agree that Smilodon would have been exceedingly heavier than a large African Lion of the same dimensions. I believe in what they are saying.  This cat was not fleet footed, and was likely a expert in ambush. It's entire method of killing prey, such as wresting a large herbivore to the ground and restraining it all point to a cat that had exceptional muscle development in its frontal regions compared to a modern cat.
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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:39 pm

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Hi Christophe
We just have different views on what Smilodon may have looked like, and that's ok. You make 
some valid points, but I believe in real life Smilodon was a very stocky built cat, especially in its frontal areas.  I do not think this cat was shaped anything like extant big cats. I also think that Smilodon had much more muscle mass and muscle development than modern cats do.  Any Paleontologist's findings I have read overwelmingly agree that Smilodon would have been exceedingly heavier than a large African Lion of the same dimensions. I believe in what they are saying.  This cat was not fleet footed, and was likely a expert in ambush. It's entire method of killing prey, such as wresting a large herbivore to the ground and restraining it all point to a cat that had exceptional muscle development in its frontal regions compared to a modern cat.

Yes, we just have different views on what Smilodon may have looked like, and that's ok for me too. I like to read your posts and I totally agree with this one. Sometimes we just don't have the same picture behind the same word.

At least I think we will agree about this one Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:15 pm

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Hi Christophe
We just have different views on what Smilodon may have looked like, and that's ok. You make 
some valid points, but I believe in real life Smilodon was a very stocky built cat, especially in its frontal areas.  I do not think this cat was shaped anything like extant big cats. I also think that Smilodon had much more muscle mass and muscle development than modern cats do.  Any Paleontologist's findings I have read overwelmingly agree that Smilodon would have been exceedingly heavier than a large African Lion of the same dimensions. I believe in what they are saying.  This cat was not fleet footed, and was likely a expert in ambush. It's entire method of killing prey, such as wresting a large herbivore to the ground and restraining it all point to a cat that had exceptional muscle development in its frontal regions compared to a modern cat.

Yes, we just have different views on what Smilodon may have looked like, and that's ok for me too. I like to read your posts and I totally agree with this one. Sometimes we just don't have the same picture behind the same word.

At least I think we will agree about this one Very Happy

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Who is that one from!? Shocked It's amazing!

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:32 pm

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Who is that one from!? Shocked It's amazing!

You can find it [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:42 am

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Hi Christophe
We just have different views on what Smilodon may have looked like, and that's ok. You make 
some valid points, but I believe in real life Smilodon was a very stocky built cat, especially in its frontal areas.  I do not think this cat was shaped anything like extant big cats. I also think that Smilodon had much more muscle mass and muscle development than modern cats do.  Any Paleontologist's findings I have read overwelmingly agree that Smilodon would have been exceedingly heavier than a large African Lion of the same dimensions. I believe in what they are saying.  This cat was not fleet footed, and was likely a expert in ambush. It's entire method of killing prey, such as wresting a large herbivore to the ground and restraining it all point to a cat that had exceptional muscle development in its frontal regions compared to a modern cat.

Yes, we just have different views on what Smilodon may have looked like, and that's ok for me too. I like to read your posts and I totally agree with this one. Sometimes we just don't have the same picture behind the same word.

At least I think we will agree about this one Very Happy

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Yes, that one we are in agreement with.  She did a beautiful job overall on that Smilodon
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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:38 pm

The 1972 Inpro Smilodon - decent in scientific accuracy, but not great in aesthetics, painting, or detailing compared to modern figures.


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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:59 pm

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Here are a couple more examples of Smilodon figures that I believe are quite decent in scientific accuracy, but not great in aesthetics, painting, or detailing compared to modern figures:

1972 Inpro Smilodon
1989 Imperial Smilodon    ( decent sculpting , although tail is much to long)


The Inpro Smilodon, in fact I think has really good morphology overall.  It's just a very early rendition toy that does not have the artistic detailing or good paint schemes like some of the  more current figures.

Do you have pictures, please ?? bounce Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:51 am

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Here are a couple more examples of Smilodon figures that I believe are quite decent in scientific accuracy, but not great in aesthetics, painting, or detailing compared to modern figures:

1972 Inpro Smilodon
1989 Imperial Smilodon    ( decent sculpting , although tail is much to long)


The Inpro Smilodon, in fact I think has really good morphology overall.  It's just a very early rendition toy that does not have the artistic detailing or good paint schemes like some of the  more current figures.

Do you have pictures, please ?? bounce Very Happy

This is it:

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:05 pm

You are right ! I am no expert at all, but this model has the true , almost bear-like appearance Applause

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:46 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Here are a couple more examples of Smilodon figures that I believe are quite decent in scientific accuracy, but not great in aesthetics, painting, or detailing compared to modern figures:

1972 Inpro Smilodon
1989 Imperial Smilodon    ( decent sculpting , although tail is much to long)


The Inpro Smilodon, in fact I think has really good morphology overall.  It's just a very early rendition toy that does not have the artistic detailing or good paint schemes like some of the  more current figures.

Do you have pictures, please ?? bounce Very Happy

This is it:

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Thank you for posting that picture for me. I am having issues getting pictures posted on this site.
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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:50 pm

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You are right ! I am no expert at all, but this model has the true , almost bear-like appearance Applause

I agree with you Susanne. That Smilodon is not to bad, especially for being a 44 year old figure.
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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:39 am

You can also find these and other smilodon figures on TAI.
Just [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:23 pm

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You can also find these and other smilodon figures on TAI.
Just [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Very Happy
Thanks Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:03 pm

Where does the Imperial 1989 Smilodon stands in your list?
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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:03 pm

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Where does the Imperial 1989 Smilodon stands in your list?


I would say that its better than all the 5 worst list figures, but rated below all the 5 best figures .  This figure would fall somewhere in the middle of the figures I have listed when it comes to scientific accuracy.
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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:51 am

I believe it's strike two for Papo when it comes to Smilodonts.  Their 2017 version is Papo's second Smilodon, and to myself they are both very bad scientifically,  but the 2017 version is just ridiculous looking.  It looks like some kind of fantasy creature.
Like I referenced earlier in this topic, new Smilodon figurines seem to be getting worse, not better.
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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:55 pm

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This is the Paleocraft Smilodon Fatalis sculpting from 2009.  I have this kit and it is absolutely beautiful.  This sculpting has a lot of scientific accuracy.


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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:18 pm

WOW !!!! Shocked

Beauuuutyful cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:03 am

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This is the Paleocraft Smilodon Fatalis sculpting from 2009.  I have this kit and it is absolutely beautiful.  This sculpting is very scientifically accurate.

I agree with this one Very Happy Very different and slender than the Mojo one

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:39 pm

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This is the Paleocraft Smilodon Fatalis sculpting from 2009.  I have this kit and it is absolutely beautiful.  This sculpting is very scientifically accurate.

I agree with this one Very Happy  Very different and slender than the Mojo one


I don't think this sculpting is very slender.  In real life, I don't think Smilodon was slender at all.
I believe Smilodon had HUGE neck, shoulder and forearm muscles and very large dew claws.   All these things aided this cat in wrestling it's prey to the ground and restraining it, so it could make a stabbing kill with those huge saber teeth.

Here is a YouTube video that will explain in detail how Smilodon was built like. This documentary is done by professional Paleontologists that study this animal in detail.:

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:13 pm

I know we don't agree about Mojo smilodon Wink

And I like very much the Paleocraft model, I only mean it is less bodybuilded than the Mojo.

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smilodoncalifornicus

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:16 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know we don't agree about Mojo smilodon Wink

And I like very much the Paleocraft model, I only mean it is less bodybuilded than the Mojo.

Yes, it might be a little less than the Mojo figure.  They are very close though.
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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:21 pm

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This is the Paleocraft Smilodon Fatalis from my collection. Sean Cooper built and painted this for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:54 pm


Is marvellous....is one treasure . Applause

accuracy figure. cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:56 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Is marvellous....is one treasure . Applause

accuracy figure. cheers


Thanks Fernando, it's a great one. This Smilodon sculpting is also a great one, although I do not know who made it:

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:21 pm

beautiful drunken

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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:57 pm

Paleontologist Meachen-Samuel’s findings.on Smilodon’s arm bones:

"While Smilodon’s leg bones scaled to size, their arm bones were exceptionally thick for their length compared to modern cats."

"When I looked at the arm bones, Smilodon Fatalis was way out in left field," said Meachen-Samuels.
Sabertooth arm bones were not only much larger in diameter than other cats, they also had much thicker cortical bone, the dense outer layer that makes bones strong and stiff. Thicker cortical bone is consistent with the idea that Sabertooth forelimbs were under much greater stress than what modern cats are,  Meachen-Samuels explained. Just like weight-bearing exercise remodels our bones and improves bone density and muscle mass over time, the repeated strain of grappling with large prey resulted in much thicker and stronger arm bones in saber-toothed cats..”
"As muscles pull on bones, bones & muscle respond by getting stronger and larger," said Meachen-Samuels. "Because saber-toothed cats had thicker arm bones we believe they used their forelimbs for pulling down large prey and then restraining it."  This is not something modern cats do.



The above findings by this expert on Smilodon is more proof that this sabertooth cat was much stockier and had much greater muscle mass in its frontal areas than modern cats do.   This is just one of many reasons why I think almost all Smilodon figures are sculpted wrong by mainstream companies.

Most Sabertooth cat figures are sculpted just like modern cats with long teeth, and that is totally wrong, but here are three examples of mainstream figures that got it right:

Mojo Smilodon
Safari Carnegie Smilodon (1988)
Safari Missing Link Smilodon (1997)

It's not just Sabertooth's arm bones that were different from modern cats.  Smilodon also had much bigger shoulder and neck muscles than extant cats do with a shorter back, wider and flatter feet, and oversized dew claws.
Its safe to say, Smilodon's morphology was nothing like modern cats.


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PostSubject: Re: Smilodon figurine accuracy   Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:39 am

The Mojo Smilodon is still one of my favorites. I think it looks much better than most mainstream brands.

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