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 Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses

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whitestones



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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:34 pm

At some point ... give me a few years tongue

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:49 pm

Laughing Laughing Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:19 am

Welsh Cob Buckskin SR for meee bounce bounce bounce bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:15 pm

You're required to post photos of him within 5 minutes of the box arriving at your house. Wink lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:00 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
You're required to post photos of him within 5 minutes of the box arriving at your house. Wink lol!

Laughing Laughing Laughing You too with the Connemara bounce Wink

I made this in Photoshop to see what he may look like, as we have not yet seen a photo of the Welsh Cob in Buckskin.
I believe he'll look neat Very Happy I try and keep expectations realistic, if one can do that really Razz

I'm very excited about how the paintwork will be on their models in general. Where on the 'Breyer<----->Stone' scale they will end up bounce

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And a version with white markings. I hope they'll add that, as I think it would be most interesting, and when I google Buckskin Welsh Cob, the majority seem to have white markings Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:31 pm

Oh how cool! He's gorgeous in that color! I hope they do add the whites.

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:30 pm

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Oh how cool! He's gorgeous in that color! I hope they do add the whites.

Thank you Very Happy Keep fingers crossed bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:18 pm

Oh My oh my affraid Those of you who pledged may already know this but I just post it anyway.

The news of Utterly Horses being refused to sell Breyers because they now are becoming a competitor to Breyer because of the Copperfox Models silent

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At first I was shocked! Really bad move by Breyer, but i suppose that's just hard, gritty, dirty business.

I really hope that Copperfox will get the funds/investors needed to continue the production of Copperfox Models. All has been postponed until investors are found.

Apparently a lot of the funds were found in the UH, and a lot of that is made by the sales of Breyers, and as they back off UH looses those funds.
Tricky dirty move by Breyer! Evil or Very Mad

Fortunately those who pledged will get their models in March. I'm so happy I pledged! bounce

EDIT: After reading the discussions on Blab forum, I actually see why Breyer did this. I understand their decision, even though it's an annoying decision for us collectors!

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Bloodrayne



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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:20 pm

Carola,
Could you please tell in a nutshell, for those of us who don't read Blab, why Breyer came to this decision?

To me this all sounds pretty harsh and quick judgement from Breyer's side?
Apperently UH is a very good client and buys a lot of models from Breyer?
(And except from the Kickstarter program: Why already see Copperfox as competition, while they haven't sold any horse models yet?)

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:52 pm

Apparently, Breyer's decision came (at least partially) from the fact that Becky from UH wanted to use income from models sold through UH (including Breyers) to invest into Copperfox. Potentially, the new company can become Breyer's competitor - so in this matter I can understand their decision.

From what I've read on Blab, it's not a black and white type of situation. However, I doubt we'll get to know Breyer's version.

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:56 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Carola,
Could you please tell in a nutshell, for those of us who don't read Blab, why Breyer came to this decision?

To me this all sounds pretty harsh and quick judgement from Breyer's side?
Apperently UH is a very good client and buys a lot of models from Breyer?
(And except from the Kickstarter program: Why already see Copperfox as competition, while they haven't sold any horse models yet?)

The idea is that Becky is using the funding from UH to benefit Copperfox, so UH is an investor in Copperfox so to speak. Thus Breyer was unwittingly funding a competitor, since Becky was using the money from Breyer sales to create Copperfox.

Yes, UH is a good client of Breyer (it's already been said she's going to lose out on 150k pounds from this) and has been for 18 years. But Breyer simply isn't going to fund a competitor, so they pulled out. Because of this Copperfox now doesn't have the money to produce RR as early as the expected date (July 2015), the UHH is cancelled, and the launch parties for both the USA and the UK are postponed. Pledgers will receive their models by March and this will not be effected.

Copperfox, even though they only have three molds right now, is still a competitor of Breyer because they are essentially selling the same product to the same market. They're a direct competitor. Same plastic, same method (AFAIK), same product really. True, they're only producing British breeds and breeds that Breyer doesn't have an abundance of, but there's no reason Copperfox has to stick to that. If they want to produce and Arabian someday, there's nothing stopping them. This is why Breyer is scared.

Also, bringing Stone into the picture here, they only started out with one or two molds. And look at them now. Now, most collectors don't even consider them competition anymore but technically they are..

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:00 am

Stone is, I think, a whole different story, especially their current position Wink

I do hope Copperfox will succeed - variety is good for buyers.

Also, people need to remember that it's a business decision - but most of them reacted too emotionally, and now Breyer is under attack...

And who loses the most for now? Collectors in UK, me included :/

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Bloodrayne



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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:08 am

Okay, so I understand that

Becky is in charge of UH,
UH wants to start their own horse models line, namely Copperfox models.
For the fans!
They start a Kickstarter to make this happen and it works,
and now the manufacturer of some random horse models, (that she is selling on her website for years and years (and therefor she should be a very valued customer to the manufacturer), feels the need to BLACKMAIL her?
Pffffft. That's pathetic. Shame on Breyer. That is bullying = ("I have nothing on you, but talk to my lawyer").

Breyer can't claim this horse model market for themself, and they know it.
And instead of scaring off the competition with their bullyroar, they would be better off working together with a very good customer and offering them their aid. I think they should get involved with Copperfox. Don't know how, maybe with funding and getting their share by putting a little "Breyer sauce" on it, commercial/brand/sales or something?
Taking it under their wing. I don't know.
But they could easily make money on this without even looking back.
And everyone would be happy.

Yeah.....

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:25 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Carola,
Could you please tell in a nutshell, for those of us who don't read Blab, why Breyer came to this decision?

To me this all sounds pretty harsh and quick judgement from Breyer's side?
Apperently UH is a very good client and buys a lot of models from Breyer?
(And except from the Kickstarter program: Why already see Copperfox as competition, while they haven't sold any horse models yet?)

Thank you Magda and LeeAnn for explaining Very Happy

In a way, I see Copperfox as a 'free' brand now, as LeeAnn says, they can produce whatever model they want  - but now without fearing anything! And end up becoming big on the market - and eventually an actual competitor to Breyer!

I think sticking with Copperfox is absolute right decision, and I really really really hope that Becky will get the funds to just continue and make this brand BIG!
She also mentioned in the update mail, that she'll be at some 'fair' or whatever it was looking for new investors already in this month, February.

If Copperfox made a new crowdfunding thingy I'd be happy to support right away!
Becky herself is a strong brand, and I appreciate very much that she is speaking openly about the situation.

- And in March us who pledged will get our models, and as soon as the first ones arrive, there will be a new explosion of hype, I bet cheers (Can't wait!!) I'm going to make so many comparison photos with Breyers and Stones together with my new Copperfox bounce bounce bounce - And I'm going to post them everywhere! Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:23 pm

I don't like what Breyer did to UH. No more new Breyers for me. I don't like this kind of politics.
I may understand why they did it (fearing potential competitor) but it's not fine, not nice and they didn't have to play that aggressive against the new brand. Sad
I believe the market is big enough anyway and also the Copperfox is dedicated to British breeds  which are rarely made by Breyer.
I think it would be good if more of Breyer's clients knew how this company "take care" of collectors, trying to stop development of any similar new brands, so collectors would have smaller range of horse models to choose from  Neutral nah.

One more thing: I hope Copperfox will start also 1:30 sized line as well. That's the scale I collect so would be great to have it from them. I think they are able to make nicer quality than Breyer Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:37 pm

I'm not entirely convinced there is room in the market for another brand. Don't get me wrong, I really really hope Copperfox succeeds, but with the price of one Traditional now, I don't know if another brand can squeeze in there and still stay afloat. Yes, people will still buy both Breyers and Copperfox models but the money that goes toward one company means it's not going to the other. So I don't know.

Anna, I agree that what Breyer did isn't nice. But it's business. And business isn't always pretty. I understand where they're coming from and why they did it. But would you want to fund a competitor? That means less funds for you. I'm not saying Breyer made the right decision - and in truth I believe UH should be able to do whatever they want with the money they make off selling Breyers - it's their money to do with as they please. I wouldn't tell you that you can't buy my customs to sell and fund your own. I would be fine with that. But this is what Breyer is concerned with, and they're worried about if/when Copperfox becomes big and eventually becomes a threat to them.

In short what I'm saying is I wish Breyer would have tried to work out a resolution with UH/Copperfox/Becky before dropping the ball. And really they shot themselves in the foot, losing the entire UK market. However I'm sure that revenue is pocket change to them and they didn't mind losing that. I'm also sure it wasn't an easy decision - someone didn't wake up one day and say "hey, let's stop supplying Breyers to UH." It's the "stop making Copperfox models or we won't give you Breyers" ultimatum that's putting me off.

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:16 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'm not entirely convinced there is room in the market for another brand. Don't get me wrong, I really really hope Copperfox succeeds, but with the price of one Traditional now, I don't know if another brand can squeeze in there and still stay afloat. Yes, people will still buy both Breyers and Copperfox models but the money that goes toward one company means it's not going to the other. So I don't know.

I don't know, I just supposed if Copperfox decided for creating mainly Brittish breeds their markets aren't exactly the same field. But I can understand why Breyer is afraid. But what I think is, Breyer should rather concentrate on creating the best possible quality - that would be the best way and most fair way to convince clients about why they should continue purchasing Breyer products instead of anything else. From what we can see the Copperfox is already showing the models that look nicer quality than most of the Breyers, how is it possible? Breyer has so many years of experience, how can completely new brand make nicer product in the similar price range? Maybe Breyer is not trying hard enough because there is no competitor on the market?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Anna, I agree that what Breyer did isn't nice. But it's business. And business isn't always pretty. I understand where they're coming from and why they did it. But would you want to fund a competitor? That means less funds for you. I'm not saying Breyer made the right decision - and in truth I believe UH should be able to do whatever they want with the money they make off selling Breyers - it's their money to do with as they please. I wouldn't tell you that you can't buy my customs to sell and fund your own. I would be fine with that. But this is what Breyer is concerned with, and they're worried about if/when Copperfox becomes big and eventually becomes a threat to them.

Yes, it wasn't nice. I don't think they didn't have a reasons to do it but they didn't have to do it. And as Simone said, perhaps it would be better to find way to cooperate rather than compete?

Also, yes, people say "business is business", yes, but I still don't like this way of "playing" that game. I'm not saying they are evil or something, just not nice, they could consider lot of different options but they chose an unfriendly one. So for me, this brand lost friendly face. I planned to buy few Stablemates this year but since I started to associate their products with unfriendliness I decided not to. I guess they don't loose much ( Laughing LOL, we sell few stablemates  less) but well, the point is I lost pleasure from collecting their products.

Another thing as you said, UH made money in their shop (selling Breyers and not only, they put lot of effort to promote the shop etc), and it's their money, so why can't they use it  whatever they like for?

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:33 am

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...I'm not entirely convinced there is room in the market for another brand....
...In short what I'm saying is I wish Breyer would have tried to work out a resolution with UH/Copperfox/Becky before dropping the ball. And really they shot themselves in the foot, losing the entire UK market. However I'm sure that revenue is pocket change to them and they didn't mind losing that....

There is always room in the market for another brand I guess. Just look at REBOR.
As long as the quality is there, people will be interested.

If Breyer stops providing to UH, they are, themself, creating room for a new brand in the UK market.
If UH is a main/big UK seller for Breyer horses (I don't know for sure, but that's what I understand from reading this topic?), then Breyer is shooting themselves in the foot. They are losing a good business client who bought a lot of their product.
And if (3rd if lol) Copperfox manages to get their business off the ground, and their horses are the same quality (or even better) than Breyer's, I think a lot of English/European horse lovers would buy horses from UH, because they are situated in Europe and can therefor avoid those pesky expensive import taxes when buying things from the USA.
Besides all that, I think that Breyer horses are very nice but also very repetitive. It would be nice to see some different breeds and poses. Something maybe Copperfox can provide.

I don't know....
Anyways, I wish Copperfox all the best.
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!
lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:36 pm

Yes, but we don't know how REBOR is doing right now as far as sales, and that's a completely different market. There may very well be more room in the dino model collecting market, but model horses we don't know. Only time will tell.

Yes, I agree they are creating room for a new brand but now Copperfox does not have the money they need to produce their RRs, thus Breyer pulling out makes a huge difference in the Copperfox brand. If Breyer stayed in at UH then Copperfox would roll on just as planned.

UH is the distributor in the UK. Now if people in that country want to buy Breyers they have to buy from MPV in Germany or someone else has to become the UK retailer. I agree they are losing out on a huge market but think of it this way - the UK is very small, at least compared to the US. I wouldn't be surprised if the UK, Canada, and Australia combined still only make up 1/3 of the US. It's not a huge market.

On Breyer's defense every year they do come out with at least three new molds. Wink Any brand can and does provide new molds with different breeds/poses (well, Stone... Rolling Eyes ), but Breyer is really on a roll with new molds in the PC. And the reason they can make all these new molds is because they have the money to do so. Breyer isn't a big company. But Stone isn't stopping them from doing anything, that's for sure. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:00 pm

Well, whoever kind of company you are, I suppose you always want to be the sole one on your market? ?

- But - for the consumer, as we are, more brands on the market is in our favor.

I agree with LeeAnn, as I believe most have a budget for their model horse hobby, and when Copperfox arrives, Breyer will have to compete to get the part of each consumer's budget.
Personally I'm definitily on a budget - and I'm always chosing ---- Breyer, Stone, Schleich, CollectA etc. or --- hopefully eventually Copperfox Very Happy - My pledge for CF was part of the budget, so they already got something there, which Breyer or Stone or Schleich etc did not.

---

I would have wished, that Becky had found her funds elsewhere, somehow, in the very beginning - but now things are as they are, and all collectors can do is to hope and pray that Copperfox will become that official brand they ought to be! bounce

I need also that RR Exmoor (by Harriet)! bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:02 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

- But - for the consumer, as we are, more brands on the market is in our favor.

Exactly. And this is why people are so upset - the collectors support a new brand and are happy about that, but when that new brand is threatened the collectors are angry.

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:03 pm

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I agree with LeeAnn, as I believe most have a budget for their model horse hobby, and when Copperfox arrives, Breyer will have to compete to get the part of each consumer's budget.
Personally I'm definitily on a budget - and I'm always chosing ---- Breyer, Stone, Schleich, CollectA etc. or --- hopefully eventually Copperfox Very Happy - My pledge for CF was part of the budget, so they already got something there, which Breyer or Stone or Schleich etc did not.

And Breyer will have to step up their game on quality to be able to compete with Copperfox. We saw a huge increase in quality when Stone jumped in the field, and Breyer really cleaned up their act. Now it's forget Stone - watch out for Copperfox!

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:12 pm

Breyer trying to pull out the rug from under UH, while not one horse has been made yet, seems to me a very premeture and knee-jerk reaction.
Everyone and their neighbour is doing Kickstarters these days. That's the time we live in.
And even when Kickstarters reach their goal, that doesn't mean they are going to pull it off in the long run.
Ah well, that's why I will never be the president of any company I guess.
tongue

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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:16 pm

The horses for the people who pledged are currently in the process of being painted, they're just not finished yet. Wink We'll still get those in March.

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Bloodrayne



Country/State : Netherlands
Age : 46
Joined : 2012-12-14
Posts : 1195

PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:28 pm

Yes, ofcourse those horse will see the day of light.
And March will give us a glimp of what could've been or what will be happening.
Maybe Kickstarter can be ongoing business for Copperfox?
Obviously there is enough interest for their first line of horses.

Congratulations to all you lucky March-people who pledged. cheers

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Last edited by Bloodrayne on Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses   Today at 7:07 pm

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Introducing - Copperfox Model Horses
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