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 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)

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Mgarat



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PostSubject: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:38 pm

My first sketch (still able to modify slightly adding/retrieving small pieces of clay):

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:19 pm

One more very promising cat cheers

And then comes the hard work to make all the spots Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:30 pm

Oh, how lovely to see another new cat from you cheers Lovely pose! Applause

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:41 pm

We can see already that it is a cheetah what is a very promising thing. Very Happy
I believe you'll reduce legs thickness,mainly on the upper parts of the back legs once I believe you're working already in the limits of delicacy that this size allows you. Long legs, tail, small head and ears, you're going in the perfect way. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:25 am

This will be one very nice cheetah cheers
I`m thinking, if the body and the neck have to be a bit longer... scratch ..but I`m not shure
The Roger`s points are always very usefull :)

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:02 am

Very nice! Applause Are you going to paint him? bounce bounce bounce It seems that he has so much life in his limbs that he will spring off the paper any moment Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:47 am

Nice too :)

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:00 am

@costicuba wrote:
This will be one very nice cheetah cheers
I`m thinking, if the body and the neck have to be a bit longer... scratch ..but I`m not shure
The Roger`s points are always very usefull :)

I agree with Kosta for the body, I think a longer body, thiner and longer limbs  would fit better for a cheetah. I think the head is also not typical of a cheetah, you have too much cheeks on your model, more like a puma. Cheetahs have less cheeky heads. Here is a pic to exlain my point Very Happy


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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:24 am

I agree with previous comments about proportions and I also think that he looks very promising. I just love the pose. You have talent for chosing very lifelike poses for your cats Applause

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:31 pm

@Kikimalou wrote:
@costicuba wrote:
This will be one very nice cheetah cheers
I`m thinking, if the body and the neck have to be a bit longer... scratch ..but I`m not shure
The Roger`s points are always very usefull :)

I agree with Kosta for the body, I think a longer body, thiner and longer limbs  would fit better for a cheetah. I think the head is also not typical of a cheetah, you have too much cheeks on your model, more like a puma. Cheetahs have less cheeky heads. Here is a pic to exlain my point Very Happy


Applause
Bravo Kiki, I`m shure, this will help a lot to Mgarat cheers

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:33 pm

Mgarat, how big is this model now ?
Like Anna, I also like the posture very much :)

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Anasta SchwarzeWölfin



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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:18 pm

Your new cheetah looks very impressive bounce
But Christophe has read my thoughts, I agree with him and Kosta. I think your cheetah will look wonderful after fixing some proportions and face details I love you

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:52 pm

As you know my cheetah model is still a sketch. That means that now is the right time for corrections.

So, thank you all very very much for so valuable –and time saving- comments!!!. cheers  cheers  cheers

As you can see below , after studying all your points I made some corrections:

I reduced back legs thickness, mainly on the upper parts, like Rogério so accurately pointed out. I think that doing that the model has gained the additional effect of having a larger body as Kosta, Chirstophe and Anasta request, without the requirement of physically enlarge it.






I would say that now is right (?)

I also reduced the cheeks as Christophe cleverly highlighted:






I think that now the face is less than a puma and more like a cheetah.

The only thing that I am not sure to change is the requirement to enlarge the neck. I think that the only picture I passed  you in the previous post was not enough to clearly show this part of the body. See these others:




Cheetahs have a large neck –that’s right- but when they turn the head to one side while walking –as you can see in the following photos- it is incredible how close the head is to the body. Isn´t it?




Perhaps this other photos could clarify how the neck of the model really is.
By the way, Kosta the model  is a 1:20 cheetah:  7.5 cm Head and body, total length 11 cm, height  5cm.



Thanks again to you all for your fantastic support . I really, really, really appreciate a lot.  Applause  Applause  Applause  Applause  Applause  Applause
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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:00 am

Now he/she looks perfect! cheers
Maybe face is still a bit like puma, but I'm not expert and now it really looks better.
About neck: there is only one thing that I would change — I would make it smoother, without wrinkles.

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:14 am

Mgarat, the cheetah is better now :), but I still want to help with some advices for the body proportions.
Watching the photos of real cheetahs, which you showed and your cheetah, I think, that the legs has to be longer....And you can check that easily with some geometrical methods.
Maybe you know them...but I`ll try to explane them also... maybe they will be interesting and usefull also for the others Wink
I`m going to show with photos too Wink

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:22 am

@Anasta SchwarzeWölfin wrote:
Now he/she looks perfect! cheers
Maybe face is still a bit like puma, but I'm not expert and now it really looks better.
About neck: there is only one thing that I would change — I would make it smoother, without wrinkles.

Thanks. I will consider yur points.

However, be aware that most of the personality of the species brings with colors, in the case of cheetahs the black "tear marks" in his face are definitive. Think how a cheetah would look whithout spots and whithout this tear marks... perhaps he could resemble a puma which -by the way- is his closest relative in the world... Wink Wink Wink
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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:24 am

@costicuba wrote:
Mgarat, the cheetah is better now :), but I still want to help with some advices for the body proportions.
Watching the photos of real cheetahs, which you showed and your cheetah, I think, that the legs has to be longer....And you can check that easily with some geometrical methods.
Maybe you know them...but I`ll try to explane them also... maybe they will be interesting and usefull also for the others Wink
I`m going to show with photos too Wink

Please do it!!!

My cheetah is still open to your comments...
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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:26 am

@Mgarat wrote:

However, be aware that most of the personality of the species brings with colors, in the case of cheetahs the black "tear marks" in his face are definitive. Think how a cheetah would look whithout spots and whithout this tear marks... perhaps he could resemble a puma which -by the way- is his closest relative in the world... Wink Wink Wink
Yes, I thought about it Very Happy

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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:48 am

I edited your last post once pictures were extremely "heavy". The code now is correct, you used the option to reduce to 1000 px while displaying but the original size of around 4 mb each picture needed to be loaded. It turns the page very slow and many members won't be even able of watching your pictures. I'm surprised that Kosta and Anasta were able of watching it, they surely have good internet connections. Laughing
Just do as you did but reduce in your pc the size of your pictures before posting on forum please. Very Happy
I am glad my comments were useful, I don't sculpt but I know that we can't change everything at once. I did know that reducing the thickness of the back legs, body would look longer, though, when body look longer, legs will look shorter. If you increase the size of the legs, body will look shorter again and head smaller. That's one of the reasons why I have a huge admiration for you sculptors. You're adding another important point, markings and patterns are very illusive when judging the morphology of an animal. I happens often in horse competions where pinto patterns give the illusion of different proportions in a horse, so who judges, need to be prepared to do it.
Figure is much better now, if I find anything to suggest, I'll let you know. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:16 am

Sorry for the photos size. I was not aware about the problem. I wil take it into account next time.

I really love receive comments and advices about my models. Even if they are completed. Even if I do not agrre with them. I think is the best way to improve and I really apreciate them. 

Yo know, something very usual to the artist is that the create inside thier brains a virtual lmage of what they are doing, at a point that sometimes they are no longer able to see the real model but the one their brains have, which use to be perfect. 

There are some techniques to break these "highjacking". The most common is to stop working and rest. Making portraits or replicas it is useful, for instance, to see the model through the mirror, but overall, asking someone else abaut it. That is, for me, the best way and that is why appreciate your comments so much,  as I said,  even if do not agree.

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:26 am

I`m agreed with Roger, also thank you Mgarat, that you let me to explane what I mean Wink

I`m using some dimansions to show a bit diferense..
At the art school , I lurned  to use that:
the head for the human body for example:
The size of the head is around 6 times on the body...for  humans (which is sometimes diferend for diferen people...)
So, you can use every size , to check the other.....
for example, you can take the size of the hand and see how is with the size of tne leg, or the body.... or the size of the arms, how many times you can put on the size of the body....
I hope you understand my poor english :)

Now, first photo is the real cheetah :



Here I`m using 4 dimensions :
A - legs
B - body
C - legs+body
D - head
As we can see A=B  
Also D (head) , you can put 3 times to the end of the legs.....and 4 and half times to the end of the body.

the second photo is you cheetah:



here, we can see, that A(legs) it`s smaller then B.
And this, you can check with D .... D we can put 2 and a half times to the end of the legs.

I think, that the back legs now are ok...
Just the front legs a shorter.... but, I don`t know if you can change that.....
Of course, if you thing that it has to be changed... :)

I hope, that you understand what I mean :)

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:16 am

Interesting Kosta, you use the same way as I use and I was ready to comment also about the front legs. I used the same method and curiously the same picture! Laughing
I agree with both of you, I never experienced to sculpt but I had the chance of discussing several projects in development with some artists of the forum and even with Mojo's sculptors. It teached me that sometimes who sculpts needs some other opinions, sometimes they can see things that are obvious but as the sculptor was so concentrated in several other points of the work, it was not previously noticed. To rest a little from a certain sculpt is another technic that some sculptors use as Mgarat commented.
Correct proportions is the essence of a realistic replica and your example, Kosta, is so correctly illustrated that you could explain it in Bulgarian that we could easily understand it. cheers

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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:48 am

This has almost turned into a tutorial, - and an enormously interesting tutorial Shocked

Thankyou to Cristophe and Roger and to Kosta for sharing his valuable knowledge,
and THANKYOU to Mgarat for being so open-minded and positive cheers

This makes me so happy !
In my youth I loved to draw, and wanted to learn more.
But my teacher in highschool ruined it Crying or Very sad
We all had to do EXACTLY the same drawing as he made ( he was a famous artist in town), anything else was bad !
He convinced me that I should NOT learn, because "learning" was just to copy, - ruined all creativity. Suspect
Kosta, - you ought to be an art teacher bounce Very Happy

Now, in my old age I suddenly got an eye-opener, - I feel like hugging you all cheers

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Mgarat



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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:34 am


Dear fellows:

First of all let me thank your contribution. I think this kind of discussions level up the quality of the forum.

I have to say that studying in deep what Kosta and Rogério said I came to the conclusion that my cheetah still has to be modified. In general terms I think he still looks too much robust to be a cheetah and it is necessary to reduce even more thickness in legs and mainly in the torso in order to get a more graceful cat.

However.  You have to take in mind that the general  color of my cheetah is now very clear (almost  white) and this fact forces the observers to perceive bigger volumes. On the contrary, the real one in the photo is darker an tends to make the object  lighter (especially with so young specie like it seems to be the one in the picture)

Now let me going a little bit deeper into the question of how to reach the best proportions:
If  you look both pictures you can see that my cheetah  is walking using larger steps than the other one. That means that the legs has to be flexed a little bit more and so the body has to close the floor accordingly (lower  than the real cheetah).  I think that in my cheetah measure A can be less than B

Anyway,  I think that proportions shouldn´t be studied in accordance with the free space the models occupy, but anatomically. Let’s see following  picture:



It marks the points of a lion forward leg skeleton that  has to be fixed to build a particular posture, apart from the necessity to properly fit muscles according with  the posture and to make it natural (proper to the specie).

These points should be the same for a Cheetah, although the distances between them are different. To stablish these distances lets go to the next picture with the real cheetah:



In the next picture you can see how this points, with the same distances -but diferent posture- matching my model:



That concludes to me, with all due respect, that the legs are not short.

However, I still think they look short for the reasons I explained in my introduction.

How to solve it? Lightening the legs and the chest (A going to close B!). Look at the last picture:



And, of course, painting the cat in his color, different than white!!!

I have come to these conclusions because you demand me more perfection and I am really grateful for that…In fact, I hope you continue “putting pressure on me”…

I am really glad and proud of the high level of discussion of this topic... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 1:20 Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus)   Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:10 pm

cheers Like Susanne, I also want to say : ``Thank you`` to Mgarat for being so open-minded and positive :)))
Thank you Roger for the support and I`m happy , that this `` tutorial`` is interesting and useful for you Susanne sunny
I completely agree with Mgaratfor the posture of the front legs.
Your choice, to change B is perfect choice..like you showed on your last photo.
I think, this is the best way Applause
Also you desided to make more thickness in legs , which will be great :)
I`m happy that we put the discussion on this level....and you took the best decision :))

I can`t wait to see the result :)

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