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 Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)

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bmathison1972

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PostSubject: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:15 am

Toy Major Butterflies

Review of Butterflies produced by Toy Major in 1996. OK, butterfly sets have been made multiple times. Club Earth did a set, Safari LTD did at least three (Collectors Case, Authentics, TOOB), K&M did a tube, US Toy did a small set, and I have figures from sets not attributable to manufacturers.

All of these below are marked ‘TM’ and ‘1996’. They have letters on the underside, but the letters are duplicated and not just on a figure of the same sculpt. Makes me wonder if TM produced two sets of 12 in 1996. I probably bought these in the early 2000s and honestly cannot remember where I bought them. My numbering below is random and not how the figures are marked or marketed.

Because they were not marketed as specific species (to my knowledge) the identifications are all mine. Several are based on the Club Earth set (these companies all had habit of copying one another) but many are from my deductions, often by using ‘The Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Butterfly World’ by Paul Smart in conjunction with Google searches.

I am sure these are not all the best identifications possible. If anyone has a better idea, PLEASE SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS. If anything, I hope this thread will initiate discussion on these and other figures…

Several factors were taken into consideration when making an ID. Shape and color were the big ones, but sometimes you have to ‘read between the lines’ and note that a prominent color on the figure might be a minor accent on the real thing. Think of it this way, if some painted a toy zebra, the way it was painted could determine if it appeared to be white with black stripes or black with white stripes. So, at times you have to be creative and try to get into the mind of the artist.

Papilionidae (swallowtails)

1. eastern tiger swallowtail, Papilio glaucus. This is a fairly safe determination given that this species has been made several times before.

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2. anise swallowtail, Papilio zelicaon. Based on the color, this could be several things (the Old World swallowtail, P. xuthus, is another possibility). I chose this one namely because it was also made by Club Earth.

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3. nobile swallowtail, Papilio nobilis. I am not happy with this ID, but I couldn’t find another tailed species with a pale orange-brown base color.

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4. purple-spotted swallowtail, Graphium weiskei. This figure pops up in toy form now and then, including by Club Earth.

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5. pipevine swallowtail, Battus philenor. While these colors are clearly those of the pipevine swallowtail, they are the colors of the underside of the organism. Like adding or removing tails, painting the venter on the dorsum is also not unheard-of with toy butterflies… Beam did a larva of this species.

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6. Cairns birdwing, Ornithoptera euphorion. This is generic enough it might represent any one of a few birdwings, but Cairns was also made by Club Earth (as well as by Cadbury-Yowies).

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Nymphalidae (brush-footed butterflies).

7. monarch, Danaus plexippus. This is the most-commonly made species of butterfly and its ID cannot be in question here, either.

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8. queen, Danaus gilippus. This figure could also represent the tropic queen, D. eresimus, but I thought the queen was the more logical choice. The unbranded caterpillar sets include a larva of this species.

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9. red admiral, Vanessa atalanta. A distinctive shape and color, this species was also made by Bullyland and Skillcraft. Surprisingly, neither this species nor the mourning cloak (next) were made by Club Earth.

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10. mourning cloak, Nymphalis antiopa. A distinctive species and possibly a unique figure!

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11. Large tortoiseshell, Nymphalis polychloros. I waffled back-and-forth with this one. At first I thought it was a Papilio or Graphium without tails (but the shape in general never sat right with me). Adding tails where they shouldn’t be, or removing them when they should be there, is not unheard of among toys (Safari added tails to both its Morpho peleides and Idea leucone in their Collectors Case). I then started looking at Polygonia and Nymphalis and suspected the spots on the wings were just painted as continuous stripes…


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12. purple emperor, Apatura iris. Not as realistic as its Club Earth counterpart.

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13. red glider, Cymothoe sangaris. This predates, and is a much better example of, the figure by Safari LTD for their Butterfly TOOB.

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14. Graecian shoemaker, Catonephele numilia. Very similar to its Club Earth counterpart (I do not think I would have ever figured this one out if CE hadn’t made one!).

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15. Menelaus morpho, Morpho menelaus. Generic at the genus level, I chose this species as it’s commonly made (the Club Earth species clearly represents M. cypris).

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16. large true forester, Euphaedra sarcoptera. I am not happy with this ID but it is a best fit for the underside (again) of E. sarcoptera. There just are not many species incorporating pink and green with black spots.

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Pieridae (whites, sulfurs, orangetips)

17. southern dogface, Zerene cesonia. This might represent something else but I think this is the best match (plus it’s one of my favorite leps). K&M did one for their Butterflies tube. Interestingly, the only pierid in this set!

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Lycaenidae (gossamer-winged butterflies)

18. crowned hairstreak, Evenus coronata. Being from Arizona, I always associated this figure and others like it with the great purple hairstreak (Atlides halesus) but E. coronata was made by Club Earth and others and this seems to be the species of this morphotype…

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19. coral jewel, Hypochrysops miskini. I bounced around several lycaenids but finally settled on this one. This could easily be assigned to other species if you guys have a preference for your own collections…

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20. Genoveva azure, Ogyris Genoveva. Again, not the best example but it corresponds to the Club Earth figure.

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21. small copper, Lycaena phlaeus var. schmedtii. I bounced around a few Lycaena species (including L. gorgona) but finally settled on this one.

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Riodinidae (metalmarks)

22. Cramer’s mesene, Mesene phareus. This does not seen to be a great representative of this species, but it is in-line with the Club Earth Figure (and a good example why the target species may not be immediately recognizable).

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UNASSIGNED
These last two I am just not comfortable with:

23. This is probably a color variant of Graphium weiskei (above)—just not many options utilizing pink, green, and white.

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24. I am really stumped here. I was hoping the pink spots would be an indicator but I cannot find anything like it.

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Last edited by bmathison1972 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:47 am; edited 6 times in total
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Wilorvise

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:55 am

Thanks for sharing with us the results of your research :)

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:16 am

Great to see you  again, Blaine cheers

What an enormous job you did here !
Very interesting and inspireing to  read about your research and thoughts, - and see the perfect pictures of these models, of course study Very Happy

For instance , I think that nobody but you could identify a model, where the underside has been used as upper side Laughing

Thankyou very much for sharing from your treasure of knowledge sunny flower

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widukind

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:38 am

Very nice stuff :)

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:52 pm

Great and comprehensive topic. Thanks for the overview with so many photos and detailed description! cheers cheers

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Kikimalou
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:20 pm

Excellent topic, thank you Blaine Very Happy

It is a hard task to identify species with such models, we are here far from a Yujin set.

About the third, I know the shape isn really different but the kind of painting let me thought about a Pyrgus. Of course, as noticed Susanne you are the specialist and I must say I am a nut.

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bmathison1972

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:43 am

Thank you all. I am glad you find the info useful :). Tackling these unnamed butterflies and caterpillars is challenging.

Also, upon further examination of other figures, I am pretty sure now [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is indeed a variant of Graphium weiskei (it looks more like the Club Earth and its knockoffs). That there are two version of this species, in combination with duplicated numbering systems, makes me think there were two sets of 12 rather than one large set of 24.
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:23 am

It's really incredible you can find species when we only see "Fantasy" butterflies. Applause

I've seen a variant of Graphium weiskei but without the pink patches. scratch

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bmathison1972

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:38 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It's really incredible you can find species when we only see "Fantasy" butterflies. Applause

I've seen a variant of Graphium weiskei but without the pink patches. scratch

I normally do not try to find species where none exist...but it's clear these were modeled after something. Too many in the set represent actual species. But it is possible a few of them are 'made up'.
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Bowhead Whale

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:05 pm

In any case, they ARE wonderful!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:51 am

Thanks to your topic and pictures, a new wonderful gallery page was now created at Toy Animal Wiki.
You can find your butterflies [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The two not identified were not intorduced yet, however, all other 22 have their own pages as well as all pages to missing species were created.
As soon as it is found identification to the other two figures, I'll enter them on TAI. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:24 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
All of these below are marked ‘TM’ and ‘1996’. They have letters on the underside, but the letters are duplicated and not just on a figure of the same sculpt. Makes me wonder if TM produced two sets of 12 in 1996. I probably bought these in the early 2000s and honestly cannot remember where I bought them. My numbering below is random and not how the figures are marked or marketed.

Blaine, I know you mentioned it but after trying to sort these figures according with informations obtained from other members. It seems that letters marked in these figures do really represent specific moulds. If it is not consistent with your figures, it may turn useless to sort them.
However, I'd love to know which letters fit with the way they are listed now on TAI (url=http://toyanimal.info//index.php?title=Toy_Major_Butterflies]here![/url] study
I also added some butterflies from Beatrice's collection that were not listed yet. It could be great to have your species identifiction on them if possible.

E-mould
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I-mould
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L-mould
Beatrice suggested this one to be a common bulkeye (Junonia coenia)
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I may be back here once Fernando is already showing some more Toy Major butterflies not listed yet. bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:17 pm

I am familiar with these Roger; Beatrice sent me the pics first for identification assistance. I first proposed that 'L' was the buckeye (not 'bulkeye). It's nice; wish I had a representative of this Nearctic species. I also proposed that 'I' is probably a variant in painting of Mesene phareus.
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:31 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I am familiar with these Roger; Beatrice sent me the pics first for identification assistance. I first proposed that 'L' was the buckeye (not 'bulkeye). It's nice; wish I had a representative of this Nearctic species. I also proposed that 'I' is probably a variant in painting of Mesene phareus.

Thanks for checking Blaine and sorry for my bulkeye thing. Laughing Fortunately on TAI I am more careful and I did it right. Wink
I will list the I figure as a mesene then.

Now we have two more butterfly species from Fernando's collection... B and I moulds, any idea about the species?

B-mould
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I-mould
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:04 am

The 'B' mold looks like a variant of the buckeye, Junonia coenia (although I like Beatrice's better). The 'I' mold might be Morpho diana (which would be another species I lack...), or a poorly-painted Morpho cypris.

Keep in mind, Toy Major produced figures for other distributors and these may or may not be part of formal Toy Major butterfly sets, but rather randome figures for other insect sets and may or may not be painted after actual species...
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:01 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The 'B' mold looks like a variant of the buckeye, Junonia coenia (although I like Beatrice's better). The 'I' mold might be Morpho diana (which would be another species I lack...), or a poorly-painted Morpho cypris.

Keep in mind, Toy Major produced figures for other distributors and these may or may not be part of formal Toy Major butterfly sets, but rather randome figures for other insect sets and may or may not be painted after actual species...


Yes, that's a fact and that's also the reason why it is so difficult to sort all these figures. The only way is to keep listing them according with their year marked and letters. Though, there is a relevant fact, we already listed 30 different butterflies, not counting with simple variations, and none of the moulds has more than 3 different versions. They are marketed for several companies but, if they were randomly painted according with each company specifications we much likely would find a certain mould with several versions what hasn't happened yet. To narrow things a little more, from the 12 moulds, we've found 3 different versions for 7 of them whilst there's not yet a fourth version of any of these.
It makes me think that other companies using Toy Major figures ahd the chance of choosing models already designed and they had no influence over the final product painting.

I know two other TM butterflies from two bugs sets sold by the Italian company Fantastico Giocattoli. Though, I believe these are from 1990. or maybe the seller meant 1990's. If anyone has one of the other bugs represented, maybe we can check the exact year. study

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:38 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
All of these below are marked ‘TM’ and ‘1996’. They have letters on the underside, but the letters are duplicated and not just on a figure of the same sculpt. Makes me wonder if TM produced two sets of 12 in 1996. I probably bought these in the early 2000s and honestly cannot remember where I bought them. My numbering below is random and not how the figures are marked or marketed.

Blaine, I know you mentioned it but after trying to sort these figures according with informations obtained from other members. It seems that letters marked in these figures do really represent specific moulds. If it is not consistent with your figures, it may turn useless to sort them.
However, I'd love to know which letters fit with the way they are listed now on TAI (url=http://toyanimal.info//index.php?title=Toy_Major_Butterflies]here![/url] study
I also added some butterflies from Beatrice's collection that were not listed yet. It could be great to have your species identifiction on them if possible.

E-mould
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I may be back here once Fernando is already showing some more Toy Major butterflies not listed yet. bounce

Abouth this green butterfly... couldn't it be a (very bad copy of) Actias luna?

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:41 pm

Anyone?
Anyway, since Toy Major's butterflies almost all seem to be inspired by true species, I don't see why this little green one's case would be different.
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:00 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Anyone?

Honestly, I find it too optmistic that Toy Major wanted to represent a luna moth from that mould. Not that I find your guess unappropriate but their shapes are so different and a moth in this kind of set also doesn't sound logical at all.
However, I wished more people tried to guess what it is, butterflies are sometimes a question of luck, they are so many that you can't check them all and you may be lucky of finding something similar to these not very accurate renditions. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:22 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Anyone?

Honestly, I find it too optmistic that Toy Major wanted to represent a luna moth from that mould. Not that I find your guess unappropriate but their shapes are so different and a moth in this kind of set also doesn't sound logical at all.
However, I wished more people tried to guess what it is, butterflies are sometimes a question of luck, they are so many that you can't check them all and you may be lucky of finding something similar to these not very accurate renditions. Very Happy

Well, my guess was based on a few points. study

First, Toy Major often uses the same mold to represent more than one species, I noticed that. All the different species represented are made from a small range of molds. Plus, their butterflies being all colorful, I don't think the company creators really cared about the difference between a butterfly and a moth, their concern being to represent colorful species of lépidoptères.

Second, I also noticed that this particular toy has a variant with a tiny white spot in the middle of each purple spot, which makes it look a little more like a luna moth; I think this variant is pictured on the forum.

Third, I have been searching a lot for REAL green species of butterflies (and moths) on the internet and books. And let me tell you that green is not a very common color among lépidoptères: in fact, it is one of the rarest color that covers the wings of moths and butterflies. Orange, yellow, black, Brown, white and blue are a lot more commonly seen. But not that much green. And this narrowed my research a lot. And only one all-green lepidoptere species was there, being both green and purple-dotted: the luna moth...

See what I mean? So, if this green butterfly with swallowtail-like wings and a purple dot on each wing is NOT a luna moth, well... I have no idea what else it could be...

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:43 pm

Your points are very reasonable and I hate to do what I did. I told you could be wrong but I am not able of offering a better approach. Though, I wanted your effort didn't get unreplied.
The variations you are mentioning is much probably this one from Fernando's collection, already on TAI too.
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:25 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Your points are very reasonable and I hate to do what I did. I told you could be wrong but I am not able of offering a better approach. Though, I wanted your effort didn't get unreplied.
The variations you are mentioning is much probably this one from Fernando's collection, already on TAI too.
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Don't worry, I wasn't angry. Smile  I just felt I had to explain exactly how I came to that conclusion. study You had the perfect right to know how I did, since we both know hasting conclusions may be Dangerous. bom You just wanted to make sure I didn't make any hasting conclusion, that's all, and that is perfectly fine with me. Cool

Now, let's try to find out what species inspired the Toy major creators to paint their other green butterflies... it won't be easy! study

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:25 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Toy Major Butterflies

Review of Butterflies produced by Toy Major in 1996. OK, butterfly sets have been made multiple times. Club Earth did a set, Safari LTD did at least three (Collectors Case, Authentics, TOOB), K&M did a tube, US Toy did a small set, and I have figures from sets not attributable to manufacturers.

All of these below are marked ‘TM’ and ‘1996’. They have letters on the underside, but the letters are duplicated and not just on a figure of the same sculpt. Makes me wonder if TM produced two sets of 12 in 1996. I probably bought these in the early 2000s and honestly cannot remember where I bought them. My numbering below is random and not how the figures are marked or marketed.

Because they were not marketed as specific species (to my knowledge) the identifications are all mine. Several are based on the Club Earth set (these companies all had habit of copying one another) but many are from my deductions, often by using ‘The Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Butterfly World’ by Paul Smart in conjunction with Google searches.

I am sure these are not all the best identifications possible. If anyone has a better idea, PLEASE SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS. If anything, I hope this thread will initiate discussion on these and other figures…

Several factors were taken into consideration when making an ID. Shape and color were the big ones, but sometimes you have to ‘read between the lines’ and note that a prominent color on the figure might be a minor accent on the real thing. Think of it this way, if some painted a toy zebra, the way it was painted could determine if it appeared to be white with black stripes or black with white stripes. So, at times you have to be creative and try to get into the mind of the artist.



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Could this lepidoptere be this one? A LOTAPHORA IRIDICOLOR (Geometridae moth)?

Once again, it's a green Lepidoptere. And green is not a common color among lépidoptères. And many of the (very) few green lépidoptères that exist are moths. And, once again, it's the only lepidoptere species that I found which is both greyish green and orange-striped...

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Or maybe, it could be this one: CARIA MANTINEA (Riodindae butterfly)?
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Bowhead Whale

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:25 pm

Anyone?
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:24 pm

I am sure if they were modeled after actual species, they are butterflies and not moths, but who knows. Call them whatever you want for your personal collections.
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I am sure if they were modeled after actual species, they are butterflies and not moths, but who knows. Call them whatever you want for your personal collections.

Maybe the workers of Toy Major didn't know the difference between a butterfly and a moth when they made their models. Don't forget Toy Major is a way more generic company than Safari ltd, and that is one of my points, if you read my messages entirely. If they really were lépidoptères from imagination, the green one with purple and white dots wouldn't look like a luna moth that much. The resemblance is, to my eyes, way too close to the real thing to be just random.

You see, I studied art and I know what artworks look like when the artist makes Something he/she knows the existence of by memory, but doesn't know everything about it, the artist will miss a few détails. When compared to the actual thing, the artwork sure shows mistakes or flaws, but still shows resemblance to the real model. And that is exactly what appens with the green butterfly with dots... and the luna moth.
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:38 pm

It is very interesting to read two different positions from two people with different perceptions of the same figure. It is actually very nice to read these opinions and see how differently something could be interpreted. I don't know what is that strange butterflybut it surely has something to tell. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:29 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It is very interesting to read two different positions from two people with different perceptions of the same figure. It is actually very nice to read these opinions and see how differently something could be interpreted. I don't know what is that strange butterflybut it surely has something to tell. Very Happy

Did you know that in toy buisiness, the paint scheme artists ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE as the sculptors? That is the main reason why many sculpted animal figures are painted as a different species or, more simply, MISIDENTIFIED BY NAME. Remember the Toy Major Mandrill that was painted and identified as a chimpanzee? This is exactly what I'm trying to explain, here. And the very same thing happenned here for that BUTTERFLY PAINTED AS A MOTH. There is absolutely no butterfly species on Earth that is all green with purple and white dots, at least not a species known by toy makers, but not by enthomologists! That would be a miracle. So, it has to be Something else! In this case: a moth! The painter who created that scheme clearly had the idea of a Luna Moth in mind, but simply made the mistake of putting it on a butterfly model! Get it, now? That kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME in art, and in toy making! Speaking by experience as an art teacher! I've seen teenagers coloring puma drawings as tigers and, in a store, I saw, packaged, bottlenose dolphins painted as killer whales! Blaine, don't tell me you've never seen anything like this before! I wouldn't believe you! It's the same thing that happened here.

Look, I know I may sound agressive here, but the fact is, last winter, I spent hours and hours, divided in several days, looking at every single species of Papillionidea butterfly on Wikipédia, trying hard to identify this little green guy. study When I saw that my research was going nowhere, I tried a different approach, and I started a new research using the key words "green butterfly species". And there were not that many. Not only that, but none of them was entirely green with ocellated wings; they all had more or less wide black borders on their wings, with black stripes.  No No match with our figure.
However, there was ONE species of Lepidoptera that matched the colors of that green TM butterfly: and that was ACTIAS LUNA. Almost a perfect match in colors and motifs. Only one catch: Actias Luna colors were put on a butterfly mold. So, I asked myself: why in the world would the colors of a moth would be put on a butterfly mold? scratch The answer finally came to mind: that is because the Toy Major painter didn't know the difference between a butterfly and a moth! sunny In my mind, it was clear as day. Especially when we know that in my art courses at the university, we students were trained to reconstruct the thinking and way of working of artists by studying their works, quotes and their surroundings. And I presented my conclusion with you, Roger. First, you did show skepticism; but you let me explain to you my reasoning step by step, and you understood me.

And I waited patiently for Blaine's response.

Imagine how angry Evil or Very Mad and sad Sad I was when I saw he simply replied:"no, it's a butterfly. Call it a moth if you like, but it's not". I said to myself: HE DIDN'T EVEN READ MY TEXTS!!! affraid  Because if he had read me line by line, he would have said Something like: "Are you sure there is no known butterfly with green ocellated wings"? or maybe:"I admit the colors kind of match, but I'll do more research just to be sure". If he read me, he would have seen that I already know the mold is a butterfly. The fact that he didn't catch that clearly shows he didn't care whatsoever how I came with my conclusion.

In other words, being skeptical in one thing. Not listening at all to the other part is another. Crying or Very sad And this, I'm sorry, I cannot take it.
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:43 am

Valérie, sorry for taking so long to reply. Sleep I think things are not so serious as you assumed.
Some years ago, I decided to give something new to this community, I was just a member, a little crazy perhaps. Laughing So, I used my ridiculous English to contact a company to give a new interaction and partnership to this community. I felt that Mojö Fun, a starting company with a very friendly manager, could be a good start. So, with a weird eloquence, I could bring Mojö to the forum and James, the manager, gave us the chance of choosing a species of our choice to be included in their future range. How incredible it was then. All previous boards never had a similar chance before. A poll was made, very exciting, it was until the last day to know who would be the winner, a gaur or a sable. Two animals that were never made by a major company. Britains' versions, were the best known among us.
The sable was the winner and I wanted to envolve again the STS community in the development process of the figure. From choosing the pose to every detail of it. James' again accepte the challenge and after a really long time and a lot of work to keep everyone in touch and give the best feedback to the company, the Mojö sable, got finished. I even contacted a conservacionist of the species to give his imput to the final details and it worked. Completely exaust but very happy for such project. It was presented, I wanted everyone happy.... and, one of the good friends of the forum just said after all this work: - Sorry, but it is a disappointing figure. Sad
I got really sad, I didn't want any personal recognition, I just wanted to see everyone happyOur community had a fantastic experience, a desired figure was created... and tired but happy of all the owrk, I read it. Obviously, I got really angry and my reply was not friendly at all. After all these years, I feel I shouldn't had replied like that. It was just an opinion and not a personal thing. Though, it is easy to tell now but surely it was not possible at the moment. Laughing
Here, I also understand your point, you are a very dedicated member, I have no doubts that you've spent hours trying to identify this figure to share a relevant information to us. I appreciate really your effort and it is good to have you with us.
Blaine is a sporadic visitor of our forum and rarely Blain reads all comments. I also know him well enough to know that when he said:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I am sure if they were modeled after actual species, they are butterflies and not moths, but who knows. Call them whatever you want for your personal collections.
He was just referring to something that he really does to his own collection. When he finds a buvious figure, he tends to choose the species of his personal convenience. I think most of us do it. Take as example the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - if you read the footnote of that page, you'll understand what I mean. Wink
Blaine's comment sounds rude to you, but I am sure there was not anything personal on it. Just a quick comment in a short visit to the topic.
I am glad that you are doing a good partnership on other topics. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:07 pm

Thank you for your understanding, Roger. That experience with the Sable antelope must have really been heart-breaking: so much work, hope and parnership for almost Nothing in the end...No

That PV Beluga is an excellent example of what I meant in my "Papiluna Motherfly" conclusion: A MOLD OF A SPECIES THAT WAS PAINTED AS A DIFFERENT SPECIES. My only wish and concern was that Blaine understood my point. It didn't really matter if he agreed with me or not, actually. I hope he doesn't do that too often in his personal life, though (I mean, not really taking the time to listen to the other part), because that will lead him to a few problems... geek
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:02 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Your points are very reasonable and I hate to do what I did. I told you could be wrong but I am not able of offering a better approach. Though, I wanted your effort didn't get unreplied.
The variations you are mentioning is much probably this one from Fernando's collection, already on TAI too.
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Man, some people take this stuff way too personally. I actually do not subscribe to any of my posts because I do not want to be bombarded with emails every time someone comments. Sometimes it seems half the comments on this forum are nothing but series of emojees and I can't be bothered with checking every email alert I get for such things. So, I unsubscribe and come back periodically to check.

Now back to the topic at hand. While the first green butterfly (Beatrice's figure) didn't not strike me for a luna moth, I have to admit this second variant by Roger (Fernando's figure) does certainly look like it was painted as such. I don't have this figure among mine so I never really gave it much attention until now.
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:05 am

[quote="bmathison1972"]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Your points are very reasonable and I hate to do what I did. I told you could be wrong but I am not able of offering a better approach. Though, I wanted your effort didn't get unreplied.
The variations you are mentioning is much probably this one from Fernando's collection, already on TAI too.

Man, some people take this stuff way too personally. I actually do not subscribe to any of my posts because I do not want to be bombarded with emails every time someone comments. Sometimes it seems half the comments on this forum are nothing but series of emojees and I can't be bothered with checking every email alert I get for such things. So, I unsubscribe and come back periodically to check.

Now back to the topic at hand. While the first green butterfly (Beatrice's figure) didn't not strike me for a luna moth, I have to admit this second variant by Roger (Fernando's figure) does certainly look like it was painted as such. I don't have this figure among mine so I never really gave it much attention until now.

I am glad you watched it now. The Toy Major brand is actually very complex. They surely intend to be reasonable with their depictions but they're often very rudimentar in terms of scientific acuraccy. I agree that this version is enough different from Beatrice's to give us a different interpretation of which exact species it represents.

Blaine, it is possible to deactivate e-mail allerts. Just to to your profile, click preferences and eactivate it. I can do it for you if you wish. Then, when visiting the forum, just click the "view posts since last visit" on main page. study I am sure this method will work perfectly with the way you visit this forum.
Behind these posts with emoticons, there are often very dedicated collectors and people that love to help and interact with other members of the community. It is not always easy to express ourselves in a very eloquent way when English is not our native language. So, a single post with some emoticons, while not very interesting to the topic, is a simple way to someone tells that loved to read yor topic. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:06 pm

I'm sorry I acted so emotionnally. Yet the fact is, in the past, I had a lot of bad experiences where I was not taken seriously, despite the arguments that I had on my side. For example, in my philosophy courses back in 1994, my teacher didn't stop telling animals didn't think. Everytime ai tried pointing out that facts didn't show such thing, he always said that I was just referring to Walt Disney movies... So, obviously, I felt angry and frustrated. And I developped a trauma following that, and other similar experiences. So, in this case, when this discussion occured, my trauma came visibly back...

However, I admit I have no idea of what you are talking about when it comes to emails with justbemoticons... I don't recall sending you anything like this. What are those, exactly?

By the way, Blaine... no hard feelings? Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:15 am

Thanks to WhiteLightningWolf, I now have EIGHT new species of Toy Major butterflies. These things just keep coming out of nowhere! I have confident identifications on six of them, a good idea for one, and a tentative ID for one. In no particular order (the letters are the letters that are stamped on them). Also, all figures are also marked 1996.

C. star saphire, Asterope sapphira.

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E. Ancyluris formosissima
This is a relatively good ID based on color, although the blue spots are a little misleading. A possible differential is  Palla ussheri (although I like my first choice better).

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K. Paris swallowtail, Papilio paris.
If not this species, than certainly something in the paris-group

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H. TENTATIVE ID: lesser purple emperor, Apatura ilia (female)
This is the one I am least confident on. A possible differential is a member of the genus Asterocampa, such as the hackberry butterfly A. celtis.

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L. Claudina agrias, Agrias claudina

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D. California dogface, Zerene eurydice
I was most-excited for this one!

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B. common buckeye, Junonia coenia
There appears to be at least two different paint jobs for this species.

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G. Wallace's golden birdwing, Ornithoptera croesus.

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Last edited by bmathison1972 on Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:26 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:11 pm

These butterflies found the right owner. I added them on TAI, not an easy work, shall I say.Rolling Eyes
The ussher's palla was already [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] as an unidentified species. I agree about the spots, why do they would put spots on it, turning the painting more complicated if the species do not have it? The diagonal white band on real animals are also quite differently positioned. Maybe they want to represent another species indeed.
I haven't introduced the California dogface yet, not because it is missing one antennae but because O letter doesn't work at all, I suppose it is marked D instead, the mould looks clearly D and it is easy to mix both letters.
We have another [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that you identified, I guess, but with a completely different painting and different mould. Is it what you are referring on your post?
Another interesting aspect that results from your new additions is that now some moulds are used to 4 different species instead of the 3 I suspected before. It means more butterfflies than I thought.

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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:18 pm

hey Roger, yes the California dogface is 'D' not 'O'; sorry I was being hasty (also in a couple of these, the letters are morphed, and the 'B' might be something else as well...

Also Roger, your blue unidentified 'I' butterfly I think is Morpho diana.
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:27 pm

After some more snooping, I changed E back to Ancyluris formosissima.
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PostSubject: Re: Review: Butterflies (Toy Major)   Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:47 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
hey Roger, yes the California dogface is 'D' not 'O'; sorry I was being hasty (also in a couple of these, the letters are morphed, and the 'B' might be something else as well...

Also Roger, your blue unidentified 'I' butterfly I think is Morpho diana.

Maybe you are right, identifying butterflies is really a hard job. I also think it looks somewhat like the dorsal side of the male [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] scratch

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