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 Debate: Papo vs. Schleich

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baltimore zoo



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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:20 am

I WILL NEVER BE HAPPY WITH MY ANIMAL FIGURE COLLECTING UNTIL,
ALL THESE COMPANIES, MAKE THEIR LINE TO SCALE AND IN DIFFERENT
POSTIONS!
For instance, Safari LTD made their 2011' Lion bigger than their Indian rhino, WHY? What's their reasoning?
For example, the Papo Hippo(mouth open), is a very nice size, but why couldn't they have done the same with their elephants?
And I don't want to hear, well they don't want to make too small a figure, because it's not safe for children, then why does Schleich make a baby chimp and orang, just barely over an inch big?
Hey, I'm calling these companies out! I'm sick and tired of their inadequacies!

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Gabe



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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:22 am

baltimore zoo: They make lions bigger than rhinos because people admire them more... Wink

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baltimore zoo



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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:41 am

Gabe, I "admire" lions more than rhinos, but I also really love rhinos!
I don't think that's their reasoning as to why they made the lion much larger than their rhinos. So you telling me, they made the capybara bigger because people adore them more? Get real, brother!
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:34 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Gabe, I "admire" lions more than rhinos, but I also really love rhinos!
I don't think that's their reasoning as to why they made the lion much larger than their rhinos. So you telling me, they made the capybara bigger because people adore them more? Get real, brother!

Balti, THEY don't made any capybara... Only SAFARI Ltd did. Wink

Maybe their problem is indeed a popularity rating one. Making lions and rhinos at the same scale means :
Making bigger rhinos, more expensive, and sell less.
Or making smaller lions, less expensive, and earn less money.

Nevertheless, you are right, a collection at the same scale would be fantastic... But I think you will not see it in 2011 Laughing

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baltimore zoo



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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:25 am

K,
Yes, I know only Safari ltd did, because that's which lion/rhino combo we were talking about in this case (*Papo didn't make an Indian rhino).

*What I said: (For instance, Safari LTD made their 2011' Lion bigger than their Indian rhino, WHY? What's their reasoning?)
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incha



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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:11 am

I think you are forgetting that all model animals are toys, and brands make it thinking in children.

Hello all, I'm going to presenting in correct place Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:43 am

Well hard question... Papo or Schleich...
For me (for example) it is Papo for big cats, Schleich for horses, Safari for WW animals... it´s har to choose. All of them have their best animals and all brands are special for somethinh. That´s why i love collecting from all of them...
But... to answer you question Gabe... my heart is more with Papo :)

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baltimore zoo



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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:01 am

Well incha, then if it's toys just for children, then there might as well not be
a Schleichtiersammler forum....
Hasbro makes Star Wars figures. They gear their product to ages over 3 and up(on each figure package they have a warning(choking hazard) because of small parts, not for children under 3). They realize(in other words SMART) they have a lot of adult collectors. I collected Star Wars figures back in the day, and now with their new figure line, I collect the new ones(for me only figures from the original movies). Just like animal figure collectors who collected Lineol, Britains etc. now collect the new animal figures of Papo, Safari, etc.. So these animal figure companies should use that philosophy, since I'm sure they read this forum, and realize that there are a lot of serious collectors, so if they were smart they would use the Hasbro philosophy!
Look if they made one gnu in a walking position, I know collectors would probably buy 20 to make a herd(New 2011 Stormtrooper figure, I'll be buying at least 10), not many kids would do that. So it's their loss in my opinion.






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incha



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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:27 am

I agree with you. I collect as well as model animals, Playmobil, and there are many adult collectors. But they are still toys, and I think the producers are thinking more of the young audience that collectors. Though perhaps not as much and this is changing ...

And I think here is the answer to your question about Safari Ltd lion and rhino Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:49 pm

Brands think in money, that's normal. Making a balance in toys companies, which are their main customers? We'd loved that the answer was collectors, but we are very far from it...
Even me, as a collector, I've bought much more figures for children than for me, the real customer is a collector but the figure ends in children hands. ...and when I choose a figure for a child I don't mind with scales. The quality I think is a very important point for children and collectors! The Papo tigress with cub, that is consensual the general opinion about the high quality, I see clearly that works perfectly with children and adultes...
OK, one day my little niece wanted to choose a figure for me and she did with the eyes of a children, she gave me a sitting panda because it was a shame she have 10 pandas and her uncle none! Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:58 am

I must admit that I do not care at all about the scale Embarassed Embarassed

Many of the AAA-figures are HUGE, ant he Bullyland Microes and Schleich Minis are tiny, - but I love them both, sorry, sorry Wink
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atabini



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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:57 pm

Hi Sussane, the scale does only matter if you think in collecting animal replicas for dioramas. In my case, I collect animal replicas because I like the animals, I look for the shape, the features and expression of the animal in order to buy or not a model, I do not care about the scale also.

If an animal looks great on any brand I will get it (if possible) to keep on adding new species to my animal collection. The important thing to me is getting as much species an individuals as I can that shows the real animal.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:54 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Hi Sussane, the scale does only matter if you think in collecting animal replicas for dioramas. In my case, I collect animal replicas because I like the animals, I look for the shape, the features and expression of the animal in order to buy or not a model, I do not care about the scale also.

If an animal looks great on any brand I will get it (if possible) to keep on adding new species to my animal collection. The important thing to me is getting as much species an individuals as I can that shows the real animal.


Thanks, Alejandro, then I am not alone king queen flower Wink
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remrock02



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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:03 am

I agree 100% with Susanne and Alejandro!!!! Scale is not a big matter to me. I collect for the species and the model type. I do not do dioramas so the scale is not a factor in my decision. I just like to have as much variety as I can find.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:14 am

I don't mind not having all my models in scale with one another - I like to have some in scale with each and display them together. If there's a model that I really love even if it's too big or small I would still buy it.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:23 am

I also don't mind with scales but honestly I'm not a big fan of very large figures, And Susanne you are not only, the most part of the members don't care with size!
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Gabe



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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:40 am

Me either. I prefer them relatively the same size...

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:48 am

I like to know the scale of the model, I would be very happy if a company would make an, even nearly, 1/20 line. But I have no hope about this !

I like to collect the ones I fall in love for, even if they are too big, too small, too old... Love affair is a love affair Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:58 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I like to collect the ones I fall in love for, even if they are too big, too small, too old... Love affair is a love affair Very Happy
Your the same as me Christophe Very Happy cheers

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baltimore zoo



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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:36 am

I would fall in "love" much more, if the figures are in scale with each other!
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:15 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I would fall in "love" much more, if the figures are in scale with each other!

Of course Balti I love you

But which scale ? Wink

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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:41 pm

Whatever scale they use, as long as they're in reasonable proportion
when placed together.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I WILL NEVER BE HAPPY WITH MY ANIMAL FIGURE COLLECTING UNTIL,
ALL THESE COMPANIES, MAKE THEIR LINE TO SCALE AND IN DIFFERENT
POSTIONS!
For instance, Safari LTD made their 2011' Lion bigger than their Indian rhino, WHY? What's their reasoning?
For example, the Papo Hippo(mouth open), is a very nice size, but why couldn't they have done the same with their elephants?
And I don't want to hear, well they don't want to make too small a figure, because it's not safe for children, then why does Schleich make a baby chimp and orang, just barely over an inch big?
Hey, I'm calling these companies out! I'm sick and tired of their inadequacies!


I think Safari made the new lion bigger to fit better in scale with the newer lionesses, which are around around 1:15 scale. The Rhino appears to be closer to the 1:30 scale they typically seem to use for really large animals, but the Wildlife Wonders White Rhino, Hippo, and even the Asian Elephant are 1:15 (Although the that represents the size minimum for an Asian Elephant. It also fits with 1:18 or 1:20 scaled figures). Papo's Hippo is scaled around 1:20 - 1:24 and the Papo Black Rhino is around 1:20 - 1:25 scale. I think that for many of the figures they actually do try to make them somewhat in scale - i.e., the Wild Safari Giant Anteater is between 1:11 and 1:14 scale. Their Jaguar is between 1:13 and 1:15 scale. There is plenty of overlap. Also, the Vanishing Wild Reticulated Giraffe and African Elephant were 1:15 scale. Just sayin.

Papo also seems to try to make most of their wild animals to scale. Most of their animals seem to fit between 1:16 and 1:18, although you do have strays here and there. I think that most of the companies don't make elephants, rhinos, giraffes, or any of the large ungulates much under the 1:20 scale due to the production and shipping costs. The bigger they are, the more expensive they are to make and ship, and the few of them fit on a store shelf. Maybe Safari's Wildlife Wonders are a glimpse of things to come, but I doubt it because they are expensive - around $20 - $25 for the African Elephant, which is 3 to 4 times the cost of the Wild Safari Elephant - fewer parents are going to shell out that kind of money just to keep the animals "in scale". When you think about it, it's a rather compulsive request.

As for child safety being a reason for not making something, that's not a legit reason. I know that Safari has said they sometimes shy away from making long horns and whatnot because the only way to ensure they are not mangled during shipping is to use a lot more packing material, which means it costs them more to get the figures onto store shelves, and ungulates do not sell as well as carnivores, unfortunately. So the costs outweigh the benefits, and they don't produce them. They are starting to see the benefits of producing high quality mini-figures, though, and are starting to focus on introducing novel species that way. Those that prove most popular have the best chance of seeing introduction into the Wild Safari or other lines. They also have started making their Good Luck Minis, and this year's Meerkat is awesome looking, and though I haven't scaled it yet, I'm betting it will fit in scale with some of their other figures.

I forgot to mention: Lineol, et al. were making their animals for the model train and related hobbies, which is the primary reason they made them to scale. They now only produce a fraction of the animals they once made, likely because it was not profitable to make in-scale animal replicas. If it had been, they would still be churning out their animals at the same speed or greater than the other modern manufacturers.

Noah's Pals believed that in a collection, all the animals should be scaled the same. They were "run aground" by Schleich, who supposedly made great statements about the possibility of doing a collection similar to Noah's Pals where all the figures were in scale. Thus far, I've seen no great effort by Schleich to make any of their models in scale - in fact, of all the major modern manufacturers, they have to poorest track record of making their figures in scale. For awhile, many of Schleich's figures were around 1:22 scale, and some still are, like the Lions and Zebras, and Greater Kudu. But their Jaguar has a maximum scale of 1:16, their Cheetah is scaled 1:15 - 1:18, and their Tigers are scaled 1:17 - 1:20 (assuming they can represent Siberian Tigers. If they are Bengals, then the max scale is 1:19). Their Eurasian Lynx is 1:16 - 1:17 scale. They discontinued their Puma, which was 1:14 - 1:17 scale. As we can see, just from the big cats, which both Papo and Wild Safari have kept fairly well scaled, and although there is some overlap, Schleich shows the least amount of it.

Given this information, and the fact that of the modern manufacturers, Schleich has been around the longest, they have obviously not been ignorant of the idea of in-scale figures. Likely, their profits are such that they either don't need to consider doing that, or they have done the market research and found that only a small margin of people are interested in/care about scale, so it would be unprofitable to focus on that. All of the manufacturers seem to be moving away from scaled collections. (goodbye Vanishing Wild, hello Wildlife Wonders; hello re-scaled Carengie Collection, goodbye 1:40 scale; hello re-scaled Monterey Bay Aquarium Collection, goodbye 1:40 scale; hello Collecta, Mojo, Colorata... etc, etc, etc.). Which brings me back to my conclusion that a cost-benefit analysis indicates that keeping figures in scale isn't profitable.

To that end, if there is no profit, there is no company, and thus, no new figures. I'd far rather have the current situation than that!
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:20 pm

Impressive and interesting analysis, Sphyrna !
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Papo vs. Schleich   Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:21 am

I agree with a lot of things you said here Sphyrna18 and that's the reason I have no hope to see an "only one scale" brand. On day I decided this problem wouldn't disturb my joy of collecting and life is better like that... Since I can't do anything to change this !

Nevertheless, about LINEOL, this brand made animals "nearly in scale" in a time where international competition was very low. But they didn't made their animals or soldiers for the model trains and related hobbies. The company which made model trains is LIONEL and have nothing to do in this story.
LINEOL was a German company and LIONEL is a US company.
LINEOL disappeared after WW2 because this company was in the DDR. Then VEB PLAHO made smaller plastic animals inspred by LINEOL models.

A New LINEOL borned after the reunification of Germany but you still have to search for the zoo line Wink

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