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 Schleich scale hippo

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Philter4



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PostSubject: Schleich scale hippo   Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:52 pm

I have always envisioned a scene where the gnu and zebra herds crossed a crocodile infested river, like in the Nat Geo shows that depict the event, start to finish. In my scene would be around 30 or 40 gnu, a handful of zebra, several crocs and a herd of hippos in the river. I am not sure about it actually happening for a lot of reasons, first the size would be prohibitive, and the cost of the custom animals will make it very hard to have the scene the way I picture it.

After seeing Shawn's sketch of his diorama, the size made me think of making some of the animals myself so I started with the easiest ones, the hippos. In the scene, the hippos would be up or down river in a calm spot and only the heads or backs would be visible so I looked up all the the sizes I need to sculpt and I decided on a full sized male in 1:22. A male hippo can be 13 ft long and his skull is over 3 ft all by itself. With this in mind the head should be about 5 ft after the flesh and part of the neck is added so I started my sculpt. Scaling it down the sculpture will be be about 4 1/2 inches from the tip of the nose to the neck where it goes underwater. Here is the first draft, I am fairly happy with it but I immediately noticed a big problem.


The problem is the size, although the size is correct, here it is next to a Schleich scale bongo done by Ana.


Bongo is about 4 ft long, hippo with shoulders is 5 ft long, but in scale it looks just as out of place as the smaller scale figures they do (elephants for example). What to do? I decided on a compromise, I don't have to have the biggest male on the planet living on my dio so I would make it smaller or I could also do a female. I shortened everything and scaled the nose, eyes, and neck to fit the new adult. I still have to add the ears, but here is the new hippo next to the same figure.


He/she/it is still substantially bigger then the model hippopotamus but looks much more natural next to the other figures. I still have to add the ears and details, bake and paint him but I am happy with it so far.

Let me know what you think, any suggestions will be very helpful right now because I can still make changes until I bake it!
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SUSANNE
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:39 pm

WOW! What a huge project Shocked

Won`t you need to build a new house for it ?
The idea is fantastic, you surely are a tornado of plans, energy, willpower and attention to detail cheers

The hippo looks great, I can`t wait to see how this new adventure proceeds Very Happy
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baltimore zoo



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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:45 pm

I LOVE FIGURES MADE IN "RELATIVE SCALE"!!!!!!!!! Wow what a concept....
There are collectors who want to do a scene with multiple animals and have "relative scale"!
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widukind



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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:02 pm

Very good!!! I cant wait to see the finish work!!! cheers
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:02 pm

I love this scene idea and I'm eager to see how it goes!
First suggestion is do not call it Schleich scale but 1:22 scale. You know perfectly that there's no Schleich scale, we can understand it when you talk about Schleich hippos and other large figures. Not good for dioramas.
Unfortunately pygmy hipos are not useful for this kind of scenes. You can always use the Papo hippo as a reference.
Adulte hippos are not as small as Schleich replicas but some are larger and others are smaller as it happens with many species, including humans. :) You don't have necessary to have a female because both genders have a almost the same size. What will determine it is the protuberances in the upper jaws that are larger in males, other differences are not relevant in a submerged figure. Laughing
The hippo project looks promising and I like already what I can see.
With the Britains figures I received from our Dutch friends, you can see how they look in proportions.


.

Here with the Hausser Elastolin Nile crocodile, the same 1:32 scale representing a 5 metters croc.

Good luck!!! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:22 am

I've never seen a hippo in real life - so it's hard for me to imagine just how big they are! They're such incredible creatures. Your sculpt looks great Phil, I like that you are having some of your water animals half in the water or just peeking out.
I think the nostrils are in the wrong place, they should be more on top, maybe?


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Philter4



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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:12 am

Roger, thanks for the input, I use Schleich scale instead of 1:22 to let people know the figure will fit with Schleich figures in a display. Many people don't know or use scale as a size template, although in this forum the members are much more likely to know the different scales. The other reason I use Schleich as a scales reference is because scales are different in different countries, for instance 1:22 is not the same in metric as it is in inches, or in model making it can be any scale between N and G scale, those go from 1:22.5 to 1:24. As far as the large size or the male/female size difference, in the scene I am thinking there are rarely smaller or young individuals that survive the conditions. It is strange that a population even lives in that habitat because less then 10% of the young survive predation by the crocs. Also there are populations that the male/female size ration can be as large as 25% difference, again it depends on the conditions, the harsher the conditions and the more competition between males the bigger the difference in size seems to be.

Harriet, the nostrils are about the right level compared to the head and face, but the angle of them is much shallower then I have so I will change it before I bake the clay.

Thanks for the suggestions and comments, keep them coming so I know if I need to make any more changes.
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Sergey



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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:25 am

...Interesting and great idea Phil! Schleich,s hippo scale is not realistic it,s VERY small. But scale of Papo,s hippo is more realistic in compare with Schleich,s zebras and gnu antelope... But in the your scene will must be about 30-40 animals in the herd? Maybe you need NOT Schleich animals scale... scratch scratch scratch








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SUSANNE
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:56 am

@Philter4 wrote:
...., for instance 1:22 is not the same in metric as it is in inches.....

WHAT ? Shocked
I don`t understand that scratch
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:45 pm

@Philter4 wrote:
Roger, thanks for the input, I use Schleich scale instead of 1:22 to let people know the figure will fit with Schleich figures in a display. Many people don't know or use scale as a size template, although in this forum the members are much more likely to know the different scales. The other reason I use Schleich as a scales reference is because scales are different in different countries, for instance 1:22 is not the same in metric as it is in inches, or in model making it can be any scale between N and G scale, those go from 1:22.5 to 1:24. As far as the large size or the male/female size difference, in the scene I am thinking there are rarely smaller or young individuals that survive the conditions. It is strange that a population even lives in that habitat because less then 10% of the young survive predation by the crocs. Also there are populations that the male/female size ration can be as large as 25% difference, again it depends on the conditions, the harsher the conditions and the more competition between males the bigger the difference in size seems to be.

Harriet, the nostrils are about the right level compared to the head and face, but the angle of them is much shallower then I have so I will change it before I bake the clay.

Thanks for the suggestions and comments, keep them coming so I know if I need to make any more changes.

Well, 1:22 scale is when a part represents 22 parts from the real thing, so it is valide in any metric system. 1 inch represents 22 inches and 1 cm represents 22 cm, there's no difference. What happens is that in trains scales they work with ranges because the reference is the gauge. Gauges in reality have not all the same distance. It depends of the country, kind of train or even the morphology of a territory. So you can have the same train in different sizes working in the same diorama. Any animal inside of this range is acceptable, but it works with trains what is very inaccurate.

You have also some brands using scales represented with 54mm, 90mm, etc. It represents how tall is a adulte man figure in this scale, it is often used with military collections. For example, a 54mm scale do not represents a perfect relation with the real thing but the other elements of the military scene should work according to the size of the human figure. To turn it easier sometimes people try to find compatible scales. 1:32 is often used with 54mm because a 54mm figure represents more or less a 1,73 m man in 1:32 scale and it is acceptable. But in a 1:35 scale it would represent a human with 1,90 m, not impossible, so 54mm scale also works in ranges.

With animals, even in exact scales, like 1:22, you can work with different scales. For example, a 6,4 m saltwater crocodile in a 1:32 scale measures 20 cm, the same crocodile in a 1:22 scale represents a 4,4 m crocodile in real. That's not a problem, there are crocs of this size, even it is a relatively small one.

In dollhouses it would be more confuse because 1:12, also called 1/12, the classic scale for dolls, could represent 2 different scales. 1/12 is the real scale, where a doll is 12 times smaller than a real human but 1/12 could also represents 12 times smaller than the classic scale. It means in fact a 1:144 scale. Microdolls! Laughing

Ana works with a real 1:22 scale and Schleich donnot use any scale, we can talk in something between 1:8 and 1:32, badly scaled in whales and not htinking in prehistoric series.

Well, the world of scales is very confusing, I'm not a real expert and what is important is your talent and that you enjoy us with your fantastic works! cheers
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Philter4



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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:51 pm

@SUSANNE wrote:
@Philter4 wrote:
...., for instance 1:22 is not the same in metric as it is in inches.....

WHAT ? Shocked
I don`t understand that scratch
Susanne and Roger, I didn't write that very well, but Roger wrote a great explanation of what I was trying to say. I also belong to several figure, model railroading, and military modelling forums and they use a different designation for scale then what I use and this post was copied and pasted in several different forums. I sell a lot of tree and plant sculptures to these guys and for dollhouse collectors and when I make a plant figure for their models I include a Schleich figure in the photos so they have a reference. What I meant by metric not the same as inches was the mm scales, for instance as Roger wrote in the modelling world the Britians scale is 1:32 or 1:35 but in military dioramas they call it 54 mm. Dollhouse that I make plants for use 1/12 and 1/24 (half scale) for most of the trees I sell to them but they usually special order a plant and give me the specifics of what they want not a scale designation.

Ana works in 1:22 scale for me, I commissioned her to do figures for me several years ago after seeing her sculpture of a tapir and it's young. Since then I have a list that she works off of that has already included about 30 figures and she is making another 2 figure set for me right now. I choose the pose and we go back and forth until we get what I am thinking of for the diorama. I chose that scale for 2 reasons, the zebra is my favorite animal and the new Schleich figures are fantastic and I wanted antelope to match them, and most of the African wildlife is just about that scale if you eliminate the large and smaller mammals like elephant, rhino, meerkats, hippo etc. I know the others vary, and there is no standard but as I mentioned if I say Schleich scale to other forums they all know about how big my hippo is.

Scale designations can be confusing but mostly because there is no standard outside of railroad and military dioramas. None of the toy brands has a standard for the entire product line, although some have different series that are made in scale (I think the Schleich dinos are 1:40 and the dogs are all the same scale but I could be wrong) and so for us there is no way to know without having the figure in our hands and measuring. That is why I have so few brand names figures left on the dioramas. I use a few, for instance the Japanese models have their birds very close to the scale I use so they fit well, on the African dio there are the Schleich zebra and so on. I do love to sculpt, plants are my favorites but I am doing some of the larger mammals and birds as well. I am redoing my Asian elephant to a standing one, the first one I did was laying in the water but now the river has turned into a stream so the old pose doesn't look good where I want to put it so I have started a standing elephant that will be in the same place but standing on the bank instead of laying in the water.
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:03 pm

Thankyou, now my world fell into place again Laughing Laughing

Roger, you put it just as simple as it really is : 1:22 scale is when a part represents 22 parts from the real thing

Voila ! cheers
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:00 pm

That's great Phil! cheers We are eager to see everything! bounce

Thanks Susanne, we live nicely without scales but I think we need a scale for modern brands. I mean, all brands having a series with figures in the same scale, but which scale? scratch Laughing
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Philter4



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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:37 pm

@Roger wrote:
Thanks Susanne, we live nicely without scales but I think we need a scale for modern brands. I mean, all brands having a series with figures in the same scale, but which scale?
My vote would be 1:22 so I could put them on the diorama!
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:18 pm

@Philter4 wrote:
@Roger wrote:
Thanks Susanne, we live nicely without scales but I think we need a scale for modern brands. I mean, all brands having a series with figures in the same scale, but which scale?
My vote would be 1:22 so I could put them on the diorama!

Laughing Laughing Poor Dany, he works in a 1:12 scale! OK, I will open a topic about it! :)

Topic here
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Philter4



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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:55 pm

Sergey, what great collection of hippos, and I see the aquarium plant base is very versatile, such a good idea.

I decided to put the hippo in the river, I know it is India but this guy moved from Africa when there was not enough water to keep him happy in my water hole lol! Just kidding, this is just for the photo, but he is now painted and I wanted a better photo of him. I still have a little detail to add, and I am going to file the base so he sits flat on the water, when I finally get to a point where I do the dio for hippos I will also have some ripples and splashing around the herd. Here he is...
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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:21 pm

Just paint it, baby! Can't wait : )
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:36 am

Eh, I like it! bounce
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:54 pm

Yes! just paint it!
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Philter4



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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:38 pm

Hippo needs a friend! I decided to make a second hippo that has it's mouth open. Using the first hippo as a template for size and shape I started with a copy of the first hippo, then I added a chunk of clay under him to form the lower jaw and raise him above the waterline. Here is the photos of what I did last night, I have a lot of work to do, he needs his teeth, I was having trouble attaching them because the clay is so soft that I kept crushing them while trying to put them into the mouth. I have decided that after I make the changes on the first hippo I will bake both heads and at the same time bake the teeth separately. Once that is done I can just glue the teeth into the mouth and solve the problem.

These are the first photos I have of the new hippo along with his friend.


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HKHollinstone
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:50 pm

He looks fabulous!!

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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:29 pm

It is so wonderful to follow the progress of your hippo-flock cheers

Thankyou very much, I can`t wait to see more Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:18 pm

They're both really nice. The funy thing is though, just after seeing your first hippo, I got an idea to make one like it, but with an open mouth for myself.
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PostSubject: Re: Schleich scale hippo   Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:43 am

Great job! The one with the open mouth is my favourite :)

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