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 CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?

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Which ear type do you want in the 2013 model? Cut or Natural?
Natural Ears
71%
 71% [ 24 ]
Cut Ears
29%
 29% [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 34
 

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:11 pm

... My question might be a bit stupid since I know only a little about cropping ears...

But does anyone know if cropping ears affects the dog's ability to communicate with other dogs?
Since tail and ears are very important features in dog-to-dog communication, so I guess that if parts of them are cut off, it would have some effect....

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:31 pm

kristaru wrote:
... My question might be a bit stupid since I know only a little about cropping ears...

But does anyone know if cropping ears affects the dog's ability to communicate with other dogs?
Since tail and ears are very important features in dog-to-dog communication, so I guess that if parts of them are cut off, it would have some effect....

VERY good and important question !!!!
Ears right up is a sign of dominance/ sure of himself, - and "no ears" ( laid back) is aggression Rolling Eyes

I am not sure about the tail...yes, perhaps, - tail op is dominance/sure of himself, but the tail is horisontal ( invisible from the front) when the dog is very aggressive.

The expression in the face also plays a major role... scratch

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:37 pm

SUSANNE wrote:
kristaru wrote:
... My question might be a bit stupid since I know only a little about cropping ears...

But does anyone know if cropping ears affects the dog's ability to communicate with other dogs?
Since tail and ears are very important features in dog-to-dog communication, so I guess that if parts of them are cut off, it would have some effect....

VERY good and important question !!!!
Ears right up is a sign of dominance/ sure of himself, - and "no ears" ( laid back) is aggression :roll:

I am not sure about the tail...yes, perhaps, - tail op is dominance/sure of himself, but the tail is horisontal ( invisible from the front) when the dog is very aggressive.

The expression in the face also plays a major role... :scratch:

And the tail between legs means submission... But if a dog doesn't have tail anymore, can it be misunderstood more easily among the other dogs??

Also.... Can the dogs with cropped ears move their ears as easily/freely as the ones with not cropped ears?

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:56 pm

kristaru wrote:

Also.... Can the dogs with cropped ears move their ears as easily/freely as the ones with not cropped ears?
Yes they can, muscles on the head move the ears. They move them according to their mood, cropped or not...

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:30 am

I think natural ears are the best here. Rose ears in my opinion are the cutest. They just give a dog a very appealing and endearing look to them.
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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:27 am

skysthelimit wrote:
kristaru wrote:

Also.... Can the dogs with cropped ears move their ears as easily/freely as the ones with not cropped ears?
Yes they can, muscles on the head move the ears. They move them according to their mood, cropped or not...

Okay, that's relieving. Thanks for informing me!

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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:26 am

Wild canids(Wolves, coyotes, jackals, African wIld dogs, maned wolves, foxes etc.) all have ears that are for the most part standing up, with the ability to lower/fold them depending on their mood, just like dogs with cropped ears can. I feel it should be up to the owner, and makes the decision and wants to crop or not crop their dog, but I sure don't want the government telling me I can't! There are far more important issues for the government to worry about than cropping dogs ears.
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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:41 am

kristaru wrote:
Thanks for informing me!
No problem, muscles in the base of the ears control movements...

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:48 pm

skysthelimit wrote:
kristaru wrote:
Thanks for informing me!
No problem, muscles in the base of the ears control movements...

Yeah, I actually was aware of that... but I was worried if the ears are ... like .. sewn to point up by a surgery and because of that they wouldn't move as freely. But as I said, I know nothing about the cropping process...


Quote :
Wild canids(Wolves, coyotes, jackals, African wIld dogs, maned wolves, foxes etc.) all have ears that are for the most part standing up, with the ability to lower/fold them depending on their mood, just like dogs with cropped ears can. I feel it should be up to the owner, and makes the decision and wants to crop or not crop their dog, but I sure don't want the government telling me I can't! There are far more important issues for the government to worry about than cropping dogs ears.

With the exeption that the others' ears are standing up naturally and the others' aren't...

I don't wan't to argue with anyone, but I think it's a bit absurd that first we breed animals to have drop ears and then we want to make the ears stand up again... Considering that there already are multiple dog breeds with naturally pointed ears : /

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:13 pm

kristaru wrote:


With the exeption that the others' ears are standing up naturally and the others' aren't...

I don't wan't to argue with anyone, but I think it's a bit absurd that first we breed animals to have drop ears and then we want to make the ears stand up again... Considering that there already are multiple dog breeds with naturally pointed ears : /

That is as spoken out of my heart Wink

No, no, I understand you, I do not like to argue either, but it is ok to say what you mean, - and we are still all friends drunken

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:52 pm

kristaru wrote:
skysthelimit wrote:
kristaru wrote:
Thanks for informing me!
No problem, muscles in the base of the ears control movements...

Yeah, I actually was aware of that... but I was worried if the ears are ... like .. sewn to point up by a surgery and because of that they wouldn't move as freely. But as I said, I know nothing about the cropping process...


Quote :
Wild canids(Wolves, coyotes, jackals, African wIld dogs, maned wolves, foxes etc.) all have ears that are for the most part standing up, with the ability to lower/fold them depending on their mood, just like dogs with cropped ears can. I feel it should be up to the owner, and makes the decision and wants to crop or not crop their dog, but I sure don't want the government telling me I can't! There are far more important issues for the government to worry about than cropping dogs ears.

With the exeption that the others' ears are standing up naturally and the others' aren't...

I don't wan't to argue with anyone, but I think it's a bit absurd that first we breed animals to have drop ears and then we want to make the ears stand up again... Considering that there already are multiple dog breeds with naturally pointed ears : /

From some documentaries on dogs and domestication that I've watched I have heard that the dropped ears occured when we domesticated them.. The people breeding for tame foxes have had the same thing happening to their foxes, their ears started to drop and they became more puppy-like..like our dogs.
As for the vote I'd like to see Rose ears.. Though either way it doesn't bother me.
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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:32 am

Thanks for your votes and comments everyone. Really good to see so many points and comments being made. I am not into dogs at all but I have learned some new things through this.

CollectA have listened and will progress with natural ears for 2013!

Thanks again. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:39 pm

YESSSSSS bounce bounce cheers

Hurrayy for CollectA cheers flower

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:46 pm

Yippie!!!!!!!!! cheers cheers

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:45 pm

Numaan wrote:

CollectA have listened and will progress with natural ears for 2013!

Yes, brands with natural ears, that listen to collectors, can progress much more than brands with cropped ears! cheers
So I'm glad that CollectA will progress with natural ears. Very Happy Wink

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:54 pm

Roger wrote:
Numaan wrote:

CollectA have listened and will progress with natural ears for 2013!

Yes, brands with natural ears, that listen to collectors, can progress much more than brands with cropped ears! cheers
Yes, I can't wait for sale results in the US scratch

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:34 pm

pookyhorse wrote:
kristaru wrote:
skysthelimit wrote:
kristaru wrote:
Thanks for informing me!
No problem, muscles in the base of the ears control movements...

Yeah, I actually was aware of that... but I was worried if the ears are ... like .. sewn to point up by a surgery and because of that they wouldn't move as freely. But as I said, I know nothing about the cropping process...


Quote :
Wild canids(Wolves, coyotes, jackals, African wIld dogs, maned wolves, foxes etc.) all have ears that are for the most part standing up, with the ability to lower/fold them depending on their mood, just like dogs with cropped ears can. I feel it should be up to the owner, and makes the decision and wants to crop or not crop their dog, but I sure don't want the government telling me I can't! There are far more important issues for the government to worry about than cropping dogs ears.

With the exeption that the others' ears are standing up naturally and the others' aren't...

I don't wan't to argue with anyone, but I think it's a bit absurd that first we breed animals to have drop ears and then we want to make the ears stand up again... Considering that there already are multiple dog breeds with naturally pointed ears : /

From some documentaries on dogs and domestication that I've watched I have heard that the dropped ears occured when we domesticated them.. The people breeding for tame foxes have had the same thing happening to their foxes, their ears started to drop and they became more puppy-like..like our dogs.

I've actually watched those documentaries too! I think that genetics is really interesting subject!

And I was sooooooooooo obsessed with having a tame fox those days, haha :D



Also, great to hear that CollectA went for natural ears!

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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:15 am

Wow, dog figures with uncropped natural ears, antelope/sheep/goat/deer(Hoofstock) figures, figures not made in "relative proportion" to each other, wow, figure collecting just isn't as fun anymore!
Hey CollectA, why won't you make two versions (cropped and uncropped)?
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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:57 am

One red/white, one black/white, one with rose-ears, the other with cropped. Almost same mold, difference only in ears cheers cheers cheers

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:55 pm

Personally I think uncropped ears give the dog a very cute appearence! Thank you Collecta for listening to the consumers! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:59 pm

Cuteness can be very dangerous, look at recent Schleich's.

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:06 pm

NATURAL! There is no point in mutilating pets for the stupid sake of fashion.
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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:19 am

Natural ! Nothing else
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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:28 am

OK, now some of us can say cropped, exclusively. It's done, we voted...

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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:32 am

With some customizing...I will "crop" my natural ear figure to my liking ... So now it doesn't matter how the figure is made.
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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:55 am

baltimore zoo wrote:
With some customizing...I will "crop" my natural ear figure to my liking ... So now it doesn't matter how the figure is made.
Great, can't wait to see it! Very Happy I don't think anyone here would object to that - the issue here is presenting altered animals as the norm, as some model manufacturers have been known to do, as this can prove detrimental to the breed itself by perpetuating the lay public's flawed perceptions of what this particular type of dog should look like. If we as individuals decide to customize our models to have cropped ears, that's well and good - just as long as it's not what the default model looks like.

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:13 am

Well said, Sumo Wink

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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:58 pm

"I don't think anyone here would object to that - the issue here is presenting altered animals as the norm, as some model manufacturers have been known to do, as this can prove detrimental to the breed itself by perpetuating the lay public's flawed perceptions of what this particular type of dog should look like. If we as individuals decide to customize our models to have cropped ears, that's well and good - just as long as it's not what the default model looks like."

It's not a question of being the norm with cropped/docked. It's to each his own, and if you have a breed that can be cropped or docked, it's up to the owner. If you want to crop or dock, fine, if not, fine. Personally, if I have a cropped or docked breed, I would do so. I understand other opinions on the matter.

I just wanted to point out (Since many European collectors on the forum) as well, that the dogs in the Crufts show look much (not accounting for the obvious, of European bloodline/breeding) different due to grooming/cropping/docking. The Cruft's dogs are presented in more of a natural look (Like the sporting dogs stepped right out of the field or the herding dogs looked like they just walked of a pasture). AKC shows, it's definitely "Hollywood" glamour and glitz as far as the dogs being "stars" too!
Again two different styles of presentation, here it's "show biz" versus European "ala natural". I guess a good way to compare would be if beauty contestants didn't wear make-up, get their hair done and dressed to the nines...(Not trying to compare dog shows and Miss Universe's, just using it as a nice metaphoric example).
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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:01 pm

Naturals ears are better, because cut is animal torture. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:46 pm

baltimore zoo wrote:
"I don't think anyone here would object to that - the issue here is presenting altered animals as the norm, as some model manufacturers have been known to do, as this can prove detrimental to the breed itself by perpetuating the lay public's flawed perceptions of what this particular type of dog should look like. If we as individuals decide to customize our models to have cropped ears, that's well and good - just as long as it's not what the default model looks like."

It's not a question of being the norm with cropped/docked. It's to each his own, and if you have a breed that can be cropped or docked, it's up to the owner. If you want to crop or dock, fine, if not, fine. Personally, if I have a cropped or docked breed, I would do so. I understand other opinions on the matter.

I just wanted to point out (Since many European collectors on the forum) as well, that the dogs in the Crufts show look much (not accounting for the obvious, of European bloodline/breeding) different due to grooming/cropping/docking. The Cruft's dogs are presented in more of a natural look (Like the sporting dogs stepped right out of the field or the herding dogs looked like they just walked of a pasture). AKC shows, it's definitely "Hollywood" glamour and glitz as far as the dogs being "stars" too!
Again two different styles of presentation, here it's "show biz" versus European "ala natural". I guess a good way to compare would be if beauty contestants didn't wear make-up, get their hair done and dressed to the nines...(Not trying to compare dog shows and Miss Universe's, just using it as a nice metaphoric example).

A more apt comparison may be found in the world of gaited horses... compare a big lick Tennessee Walking Horse with weighted shoes and set tail to a flatshod horse gaiting naturally. For anyone not familiar with the style, here are links to two resins by well-established hobby artists showing both types of horse.
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This is a big issue in the model horse community, and it basically boils down to whether an artist or model manufacturer views their product as descriptive or prescriptive.
In breeds like Amstaffs or TWHs altered animals tend to show better because they do a better job of matching what the public believes this particular breed should look like. However, some breed associations (at least the more ethically minded ones) try to fight this because the alterations do, on the whole, harm animals either directly or indirectly - whether through amputations and soring or through limiting the breed's genetic diversity by making unaltered animals less desirable as breeding stock.

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:21 pm

Spaying and neutering is a much more invasive procedure than ear cropping and tail docking, yet that is not considered cruel Evil or Very Mad

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:53 pm

... because it helps reduce the number of unwanted puppies being put to death in shelters or privately? Because it helps eradicate genetic diseases in a breed? Because there are next to no other methods of birth control for animals*, beyond those that have very detrimental side effects?

... not really seeing the problem here.


* (certainly not for both genders, although some nutter evidently has invented dog condoms!)

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:08 pm

Sumo wrote:
... because it helps reduce the number of unwanted puppies being put to death in shelters or privately?
Yep, it's certainly a lot easier to have your dog's ovaries and uterus surgically removed than to take an extra care so she doesn't get pregnant in those 2 critical weeks during a year Shocked

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:38 pm

skysthelimit wrote:
Sumo wrote:
... because it helps reduce the number of unwanted puppies being put to death in shelters or privately?
Yep, it's certainly a lot easier to have your dog's ovaries and uterus surgically removed than to take an extra care so she doesn't get pregnant in those 2 critical weeks during a year Shocked

Apparently so. Quoth the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]:
aspca.org wrote:
It is impossible to determine how many stray dogs and cats live in the United States; estimates for cats alone range up to 70 million.
(...)
According to the National Council on Pet Population Study and Policy (NCPPSP), less than 2 percent of cats and only 15 to 20 percent of dogs are returned to their owners. Most of these were identified with tags, tattoos or microchips.
(...)
Only 10 percent of the animals received by shelters have been spayed or neutered, while 78 percent of pet dogs and 88 percent of pet cats are spayed or neutered, according to the American Pet Products Association (Source: APPA).

Any way you want to look at it, there's a hell of a lot of dogs that aren't looked after properly - or at all. How many unwanted puppies does that make per year? I haven't done the math, but there's a good chance we're talking five figures.

Quote :
Approximately 5 million to 7 million companion animals enter animal shelters nationwide every year, and approximately 3 million to 4 million are euthanized (60 percent of dogs and 70 percent of cats).

Keeping your female dogs indoors (or monitoring them closely when outdoors) during estrus is a good idea - if you're a good and responsible dog owner. The fact remains, however, that many people aren't.

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:33 pm

xfoxx wrote:
SUSANNE wrote:
I think that CollectA should show they are animal friendly and not even consider cut ears.
Exactly.

Ditto!

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PostSubject: Baltimore zoo   Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:31 am

Meant to comment on the ear crop surgery photo. If it was a surgery pic (a medical pic presented with blood/stitches etc.) of breast augmentation, face lift or a rhinolasty, it's still a usual unpleasant looking after surgery photo(Any after surgery pic is). Is breast augmentation, face lift or a rhinolasty mutilation?
For dogs, ear cropping, and for humans, nose jobs, tummy tucks, boob jobs are an artistic form of surgery.
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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:07 pm

baltimore zoo wrote:
Meant to comment on the ear crop surgery photo. If it was a surgery pic (a medical pic presented with blood/stitches etc.) of breast augmentation, face lift or a rhinolasty, it's still a usual unpleasant looking after surgery photo(Any after surgery pic is). Is breast augmentation, face lift or a rhinolasty mutilation?
For dogs, ear cropping, and for humans, nose jobs, tummy tucks, boob jobs are an artistic form of surgery.


Yes, but people choose what they want to crop or add to their bodies, dogs not Sad
Imagine a husband who want breast operation for his wife and tell her: " You have to go to operation today Sweetheart " and she has no choice?! affraid affraid affraid Or this: "You must change Your nose shape today, NOW!!! "

Maybe it is exaggerated example but just to illustrate situation Wink Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:19 pm

When I see dogs who can't give birth without a C-section because their heads are genetically selected to be oversized, dogs who can't run 100meters without fainting because of their short muzzles and respiratory system, dogs with severe skin infections due to their fashionable loose skin and similar health issues brought to dogs by us humans, I see only that cropping ears is the least of our problems.

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:37 pm

skysthelimit wrote:
When I see dogs who can't give birth without a C-section because their heads are genetically selected to be oversized, dogs who can't run 100meters without fainting because of their short muzzles and respiratory system, dogs with severe skin infections due to their fashionable loose skin and similar health issues brought to dogs by us humans, I see only that cropping ears is the least of our problems.

This is sad how mad is is our Homo Sapiens specie Sad Sad Sad

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:20 pm

Yes, it is horrible what we do to the poor animals, - and the list is long Sad

But cruel action does not excuse another, IMHO Suspect

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PostSubject: Re: CollectA 2013 - American Staffordshire Terrier: Do you want cut ears or natural ears?   Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:02 pm

skysthelimit wrote:
When I see dogs who can't give birth without a C-section because their heads are genetically selected to be oversized, dogs who can't run 100meters without fainting because of their short muzzles and respiratory system, dogs with severe skin infections due to their fashionable loose skin and similar health issues brought to dogs by us humans, I see only that cropping ears is the least of our problems.

It just shows we are unable to accept beings as they are.
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