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 The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas

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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyWed Apr 21, 2021 9:04 pm

Hi there !

I recently acquired the new mountain gorilla from CollectA and announced on my addition topic that I would make a walkaround of it and explain more in depth why I think it's an excellent rendition of the Gorilla beringei beringei subspecies, especially when compared with the two last Schleich models which are supposed to represent Western lowland gorillas (Gorilla gorilla gorilla). But let's not waste our time with a too long introduction, everything is already on my [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and have a closer look together at the beast without further delay.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

That's the third gorilla male to join my collection and, to be honest, I bought it because I am a fan of gorilla figures, because it looked beautiful, and because it was marketed as a mountain gorilla. It's difficult to get a faithful idea of the real product from promo pics and I didn't really expect the mountain subspecies to be strikingly recognizable from the sculpt. Most of all, it's easier to tell close species or subspecies apart from each other when you actually have the opportunity to compare them and play the "spot the difference" game. So I had a very good surprise when I took my new CollectA out of its package and put it next to my two other models from Schleich. Here is the proud and quite intimidating trio :
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There are two species of gorillas on earth and each of them is divided into two subspecies which makes four subspecies in total.
The two species are Western (Gorilla gorilla) and Eastern (Gorilla beringei) gorillas.
The two Western subspecies are Western lowland (Gorilla gorilla gorilla) and river cross gorillas (Gorilla gorilla diehli).
The two Eastern subspecies are Eastern lowland (Gorilla beringei graueri) and mountain gorillas (Gorilla beringei beringei).
So to sum up it gives us :
- Western lowland gorilla (Gorilla gorilla gorilla)
- Western river cross gorilla (Gorilla gorilla diehli)
- Eastern lowland gorilla (Gorilla beringei graueri)
- Eastern mountain gorilla (Gorilla beringei beringei)

If you want to know where each lives, here is a distribution map :
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I didn't find much info about the river cross gorilla and to be honest, I don't really think it has so much differences with the Western lowland. So we'll just ignore it to simplify our matter. There is certainly more discrepancy between the two species. But first, keep in mind that this is not an exact science. There can be quite a lot of divergence between individuals within a same species and thus, a Western gorilla may show some features very close to the Eastern species typical characteristics and the other way around. But generally speaking, it appears that Eastern gorillas are bigger, heavier, bulkier, but also stockier than Western ones. It means that arms look proportionally shorter but wider and that the body is more massive on the Eastern subspecies to give that stocky look. Then, the mountain gorilla distinguishes itself from the Eastern lowland one by its fur which is even thicker to help it resist colder temperatures at higher altitudes.
Here is a real comparison between a typical mountain gorilla on the left and a typical Western lowland one on the right. Again, those are only typical phenotypes, stockier Western and slenderer mountain do exist.
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All these distinctive features are clearly visible on the Schleich 14770 and CollectA models that respectively represent a Western lowland gorilla and a mountain gorilla.
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The general silhouettes are quite obviously different : apart from its shorter and wider arms, the CollectA gorilla is less "fit" than the Schleich one which is slimmer, less muscular but more "athletic". Yet, although quite obvious, that difference is still pretty slight and avoids being caricatural which makes the whole thing very subtle. The longer and thicker hairs on the CollectA model is also very visible and confirms its first overall mountain gorilla vibe.

That more hairy coat has a direct consequence on the head's shape. While the bony sagittal crest is highly distinguishable and even prominent on the Western lowland subspecies, the head of the mountain gorilla appears as a wider and more harmonious oval shape because of these extra hairs.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

On the figures, it is even more obvious from the side where the typical mountain gorilla's hairy sideburns are visible on the CollectA model.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Finally, this is the most distinguishable feature and the ONLY officially admitted one to tell the two species appart : the shape of the nostrills. On the Eastern species, wether it is the lowland or mountain one, the nostrils are wider and tend to ride up to the top while western nostrils are much rounder. A criteria respected by the CollectA and Schleich models.
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That's why, in my opinion, both these sculpts are the most perfect educational materials one could dream of to explain the differences between Western lowland and mountain gorillas, the two most famous subspecies of the largest ape on earth (Western lowland because it's the most common one and the only kept in zoos and mountain gorilla because of its rarity, its very particular wooly appearance and its importance for wildlife tourism in Ouganda or Rwanda).

You'll notice I carefully said “sculpts” and not “models”. Indeed, after further researches, those figures are not so perfect as I first thought, at least the CollectA model. The paintjob is a bit wrong as it's somewhat reddish while those tints can be observed on Western gorillas but never Eastern ones which are usually completely black (except the greyish shades of silverback males of course). So not a 100% perfect rendition but maybe it's just my sample as the figure does look black on promo pics. Anyway, even painted as a zebra Western lowland, I recognize a mountain gorilla from that CollectA masterpiece Wink

I have a third gorilla figure and I wondered if maybe, I also had a third subspecies in my collection cheers Indeed, the previous Schleich model is slightly bulkier and more muscular than the new rendition so, perhaps, I thought it could represent the Eastern lowland subspecies. But let's check the criterias together again.

First, despite being indeed more bodybuilded, the general body shape of the 2012 model is wayyy closer to the fit, athletic, more recent Schleich than the stocky CollectA.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Then the tiny round nostrils are even more Western-typical than on the newer Schleich and definitely NOT those of an Eastern gorilla.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

So, the diagnosis is irrevocable : Western gorilla too !

In my collection, this silverback is actually the leader of the group while the newer model is a younger challenging competitor !

So what about an Eastern lowland gorilla in toy form ? Is there any available from Major brands ? Well, certainly none marketed as such but since the differences are, as you saw, so subtle and subjective, and brands don't always bother being faithful to a particular subspecies, I guess the interpretation is left to the collector's judgement.

A few models could actually qualify for the Eastern lowland label.

The Papo one especially, has quite an Eastern phenotype with its big wide arms, stocky body and large oval nostrils in my opinion :
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I may buy it as such if any local “oracle” confirms the assumption.

The vintage Schleich from 2002 may also look a bit like an Eastern behemoth with its very stocky and bodybuilded look. I have seen, and had the opportunity to get that model once and it's particularly huge, a good thing to portray an Eastern lowland, the largest gorilla subspecies. However, that particular appearance is most likely due to the usual chubby Schleich design at that time than a real will to represent any particular species or subspecies and anyone would prefer the more modern Papo nowadays.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I want to precise that I am in NO WAY a masculine version of Dian Fossey so everything I'm telling you in that topic is coming from my own stereotypes about gorillas and a few quick and botch researches similar to those I used to do at 2 am before mid-term exams. So if any of you has some knowledge about gorilla identification, please add your contribution to this thread.

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Schleich 370
CollectA 76
Papo 61
Safari 24
Yujin 15
Southlands 12
Mojo 14
Maia&Borges 5
Bullyland 1
Recur 1
Homemade 3
Bootleg 1
Total 582


Last edited by RtasVadumee on Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bonnie

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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyWed Apr 21, 2021 10:22 pm

A beautiful model and walkaround! cheers
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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyThu Apr 22, 2021 10:02 am

This is exactly what I wanted to see and your topic is even better than what I expected! cheers
What a great job you did here, Ben!
Even if it is not mentioned here, the hairy CollectA new baby is more than explained now. Laughing
Oh, I was not aware about the nostrils, it reminds me the way that is used to identify a grey seal from a harbor seal. Really convincing all your explanations and probably I will add both models to my collection thanks to your topic. I'm only not sure about which Schleich model to get. I have seen locally the old one and I liked it a lot but I don't know if it is still available.
The King of Kongs will always be the 2018 Papo standing gorilla but that's what it is, a kind of King of Kongs, I find these models here presented scientifically more relevant. monkey

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spacelab

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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyThu Apr 22, 2021 10:30 am

A marvelous walkaround and comparison!
The Collecta is in and out of a future purchase all the time. Though a nice model there are some things that set me off.
The muzzle is too brownish, a strange choice as a dark grey painting would be easy and more accurate. Also the eyes are too orange, like the old Schleich one. On the latest one, Schleich did a great job on this. These are just details of course.
I remember that Blaine identified the new Schleich as an Eastern Lowland subspecies, so it would be interesting to know how he concluded on this.
Roger, so many close-ups and you're still not sure which Schleich is better? The latest one without a doubt for me!
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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyThu Apr 22, 2021 12:03 pm

Thank you for the professional comparison of the existing models. I have the newest male and female Schleich and mountain CollectA. I only care about mountain gorillas so I am waiting for a new model of the young mountain gorilla CollectA. I will probably sell both Schleich gorillas. I would love to buy the old Safari LTD mountain gorilla models - mother and baby.

I have a question. What gorilla subspecies are the Mojo male and female models from 2021? In official advertising material, they recently stated that they are mountain gorillas. Before that, just "gorilla".

Your perfect analysis helps me.
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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyThu Apr 22, 2021 12:34 pm

Many thanks for your identification and comparisons. I love your analysis and it really helps me. I think both Gorillas will now be on my purchasing list, as everything what you wrote is comprehensible :)
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widukind

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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyThu Apr 22, 2021 3:26 pm

That is very interesting. Thank you

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RtasVadumee

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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyFri Apr 23, 2021 1:13 am

Roger wrote:
Even if it is not mentioned here, the hairy CollectA new baby is more than explained now. Laughing

There might be some joke hiding behind that but I don't catch it as I didn't follow the discussions around the CollectA baby. What is it about ? From pictures I have seen on the net of real mountain babies, it seems really good actually.

Roger wrote:
I'm only not sure about which Schleich model to get. I have seen locally the old one and I liked it a lot but I don't know if it is still available.

As Kostas, I would definitely go for the newer one, that's an expression I often use but this one "feels" like the real ape while the previons version just "looks" like it. The older one is nice too and to be honest, there are enough available females so that the group does not look too unbalanced with too males. In my African diorama, I always make them face and confront each other : the new model is a wandering male trying to take power over the older patriarch whose back is more silver as shown on my pics. Moreover, from an anthropomorphic point of view, the old model looks like a gentle, caring giant family ape while the newer one has definitely the bad guy's face of a fierce ambitious rival Razz

spacelab wrote:
The muzzle is too brownish, a strange choice as a dark grey painting would be easy and more accurate. Also the eyes are too orange, like the old Schleich one. On the latest one, Schleich did a great job on this. These are just details of course.

You forgot the facial hairs : the CollectA model has hairs around the eyes which is not accurate whatever the subspecies.

Quote :
I have a question. What gorilla subspecies are the Mojo male and female models from 2021? In official advertising material, they recently stated that they are mountain gorillas. Before that, just "gorilla".

Can't really tell from the promo pics but the Eastern identification may not be so out of place. But I feel like the CollectA makes a more (stereo)typical than this new Mojo.

Thanks everyone for your compliments !

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Schleich 370
CollectA 76
Papo 61
Safari 24
Yujin 15
Southlands 12
Mojo 14
Maia&Borges 5
Bullyland 1
Recur 1
Homemade 3
Bootleg 1
Total 582
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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyFri Apr 23, 2021 2:54 am

That was really interesting to read. I don't see myself collecting great apes much, but I found myself reading all the way through regardless because it was fascinating. You really have a discerning eye.
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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyFri Apr 23, 2021 9:20 am

RtasVadumee wrote:
Roger wrote:
Even if it is not mentioned here, the hairy CollectA new baby is more than explained now. Laughing

There might be some joke hiding behind that but I don't catch it as I didn't follow the discussions around the CollectA baby. What is it about ? From pictures I have seen on the net of real mountain babies, it seems really good actually.

Roger wrote:
I'm only not sure about which Schleich model to get. I have seen locally the old one and I liked it a lot but I don't know if it is still available.

As Kostas, I would definitely go for the newer one, that's an expression I often use but this one "feels" like the real ape while the previons version just "looks" like it. The older one is nice too and to be honest, there are enough available females so that the group does not look too unbalanced with too males. In my African diorama, I always make them face and confront each other : the new model is a wandering male trying to take power over the older patriarch whose back is more silver as shown on my pics. Moreover, from an anthropomorphic point of view, the old model looks like a gentle, caring giant family ape while the newer one has definitely the bad guy's face of a fierce ambitious rival Razz


No hairy joke this time. It is only because the CollectA baby has a hairy look we don't see often in these figures and you explain that is a feature of mountain gorillas, thus they apparently got it right.
I will get the new Schleich gorilla, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is even theasing me because I couldn't see which one is better even with all your close up pictures. Laughing

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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyFri Apr 23, 2021 7:47 pm

Thank you for these very useful comparison pictures and explanations! cheers cheers
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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyMon May 03, 2021 9:19 am

Wonderful walkaround drunken Applause

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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyTue Dec 20, 2022 9:23 pm

I am revisiting this discussion and is there a typo above? Showing the faces of the Schleich 2011 figure and the newest CollectA mountain gorilla, the caption says 'both western too'. Do you mean both eastern? The nostrils of the 2011 Schleich gorilla look 'eastern' and the nostrils of the 2017 Schleich look 'western'!
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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyTue Dec 20, 2022 9:51 pm

bmathison1972 wrote:
I am revisiting this discussion and is there a typo above? Showing the faces of the Schleich 2011 figure and the newest CollectA mountain gorilla, the caption says 'both western too'. Do you mean both eastern? The nostrils of the 2011 Schleich gorilla look 'eastern' and the nostrils of the 2017 Schleich look 'western'!

No Blaine, Benjamin is suggesting that both Schleich are supposed to represent Western lowland gorillas (Gorilla gorilla gorilla), this is the subspecies we find in every zoo.. Also, Ben is not anymore a member on forum, maybe he is active on ATF, I don't know.

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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyTue Dec 20, 2022 10:53 pm

I had completely forgotten this so interesting post. drunken So what about the last standing Papo one? His nostrils  seem to be the Eastern's ones though its fur is short and reddish on his head! Shocked
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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
PostSubject: Re: The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas   The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas EmptyWed Dec 21, 2022 9:39 pm

Great comparison and wonderful and informative text! Applause Applause Applause

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The King of Kong : A gorilla walkaround and comparison by Rtas Empty
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