Copyrights of Schleich official pictures and the way we can use them

Dear members,
Our forum lives from all of your contributions, whether small or large .
Often members invest a lot of time in their posts and, particularly popular, are pictures of novelties from different brands.
The STS community is very grateful for these great contributions, because for us collectors these pictures have a huge interest.

Thus, we are very sad that recently we had to remove some links to pictures of novelties.

The reason is the very demanding German copyright law. STS Forum is a German website, so the German copyright law may be applicable.

A few days ago, we got an e-mail directly from the Digital Marketing Manager of Schleich with the following content:

...(Members) ...posted again pictures of our novelties from July/August/September. We do not want them to be shown. Of course, if he took pictures from a toy fair, is the owner of his pictures and can share them. But if he uses official product pictures from us too and we would like to know from where he got them. Our distributors and retailers are not allowed to share them earlier than 10 weeks before launch......"

After it, we contacted Schleich by e-mail and phone and we explained that we are not very happy about their message and we have spoken a lot about copyrights and licenses.
The whole topic is very complicated and bureaucratic.

For more clarity in this matter, Schleich has written a statement to us. Here it is:

In English:

"We do not want to bump collectors and Schleich fans. When it comes to private shots or photos from a trade fair or from our self-issued print catalogs, then, of course, they are allowed to share them! It is only about these official product images provided by us. We only make this available to a selected user group of distributors and retailers in advance of a product launch. This user group may use the product images of novelties earlier to create their own sales material for business customers. For consumers (like you), these official product images should be published earliest about three months before launch. This applies in particular to licensed articles such as The Smurfs, MARVEL, Maya the Bee or DC Comics. We as manufacturers are explicitly obliged to wait for their release, e.g. when it comes to articles on new movies etc.

This is governed by legal contracts and agreements of use. If, therefore, official product images already go round before this deadline, this is contrary to our agreements. Correspondingly, we would like to find the one who violates it.

Because if an official image material from a dealer is already published 6 months before on the Internet and another retailer adheres to our specifications, this also leads to displeasure among our business customers. Accusations such as "unfair treatment" or "distortion of competition" etc. arise. Also we can get serious problems with licencors. We would like to counter this."


In German:

"Es geht uns nicht darum Sammler und Schleich-Fans vor den Kopf zu stoßen. Wenn es um private Aufnahmen geht oder um Fotos von einer Messe oder aus unseren selbstausgegebenen Print-Katalogen, dann ist teilen natürlich erlaubt! Es geht uns nur um diese offiziellen, von uns zur Verfügung gestellten Produktbilder. Diese stellen wir nur einer ausgewählten Nutzergruppe von Distributoren und Händlern zur Verfügung, und zwar im Vorfeld einer Produktmarkteinführung. Diese Nutzergruppe darf die Produktbilder von Neuheiten früher verwenden zur Erstellung ihrer eigenen Vertriebsmaterialen an Geschäftskunden. An Konsumenten (so wie Sie) sollten diese offiziellen Produktbilder erst ca. drei Monate vor Markteinführung vorher publiziert werden. Dies gilt insbesondere auch für Lizenzartikel wie Die Schlümpfe, MARVEL, Die Biene Maja oder DC Comics. Wir als Hersteller sind explizit verpflichtet auf deren Freigabe zu warten, z.B. wenn es um Artikel zu Kinofilmen etc. geht.

Dahinter stehen rechtliche Verträge und Vereinbarungen. Wenn also offizielle Produktbilder vor dieser Frist schon die Runde machen, verstößt das gegen Vereinbarungen. Entsprechend würden wir demjenigen, der dagegen verstößt, gerne auf die Spur kommen.
Denn wenn offizielles Bildmaterial vom einen Händler bereits 6 Monate vorher im Internet publiziert wird und ein anderer Händler sich sklavisch an unsere Vorgaben hält, führt dies verständlicherweise auch zu Unmut unter unseren Geschäftskunden. Vorwürfe wie „ungerechte Behandlung“ oder „Wettbewerbsverzerrung“ etc. kommen auf. Obendrein können ernsthafte Probleme mit Lizenzgebern bekommen. Dem würden wir gerne entgegen wirken."


Which Schleich photos can members post at STS? This rules are valid not only for STS members, but also for all dealers, websites, blocs, forums. Schleich claims... "Equal right for all and can not make any exceptions for our forum."

- You can post Schleich photos from figures, which are in the current range.  You can post Schleich photos from figures which you can buy now in shops.
- You can post photos which are not in the current range, but that will be available in stores now and within the next 1-2 months.
- Photos from figures that will only be available in shops within three months or later are not allowed.
- You can always publish your own photos from novelties, only when they will be available in a few months. For example if you have taken photos at an exhibition or fair. You are the owner of these photos, the copyright is yours.

Schleich has the worst quality in sculpting, painting and accuracy amongst the animal figures producers, and they complain about free publicity? Fine for me.

Interesting. Thank you for letting us know, Christophe!

Okay :)

Defteros wrote:

Schleich has the worst quality in sculpting, painting and accuracy amongst the animal figures producers, and they complain about free publicity? Fine for me.

Agreed. Way to tell their fans what you think of them (nothing). Copyright or not, once photos are public, most companies encourage sharing and 'free advertising'. Using 'fair dealing' is just a weird excuse to control information...which, for sales, makes no sense.

Thank you for sharing this, Kikimalou!

I would understand the mail if it was directed to a shop who published the pictures prior to the official date.
They have benefit from it, by extra sales. and have an unfair advantage over the other shops this way.
On the other hand, I do not get it when send to an collectors forum. We don't gain any money or goods by placing these on the site.
The pictures are only visible for members. So it's not like we place them on billboards or something like that.  

Kikimalou wrote:

- You can always publish your own photos from novelties, only when they will be available in a few months. For example if you have taken photos at an exhibition or fair. You are the owner of these photos, the copyright is yours.

Despite their information I hope they dont, as a result become a little stricter at next year's toy fair! I dont want to be stopped when trying to take photos.......

So this means that a photo of the 2017 Sloth for instance can be posted as long as it was a personal photo taken by me? In which case use that image temporarily on the 'South american models by all brands' forum page.....

Numaan wrote:

......

So this means that a photo of the 2017 Sloth for instance can be posted as long as it was a personal photo taken by me?  In which case use that image temporarily on the 'South american models by all brands' forum page.....

Hurraaay for Numaan

HUGS

Thank you for the notice Christophe

I don't understand the issue either - free advertising, what's the problem? If they don't want photos shared in advance then don't send them to anyone. It's like telling your friend a "secret" when you were young. You had the information, you wanted to tell everyone. If you give these photos to someone (dealer, what have you), and tell them they can't share until a certain date, they're going to share them early! You can't avoid that!

The whole thing just seems silly to me. The only part I can kind of see is using photos licensed models before the movie comes out, as it could spoil part of the movie. But still, don't release the photos if you don't want them shared.

I actually do understand where they're coming from. I took it as that the photos they are talking about are private pre-release photos that should not be made available to the public before they are intended to be released.

MANY companies do this, Breyer also (I've even seen issues like this with Precious Moments, Jim Shore and Disney products as well). Some folks can get in BIG trouble if they post pictures of "secret" items that are going to be released in the future.  

These people who are allowed to see those photos ahead of time, usually have a non-disclosure agreement with the company and should not be posting them or showing them to ANYONE. Same goes if you take a photo where you're not supposed to.

So it's not about fans just sharing stock photos...they specifically say if you took the photo where you were allowed to take said photo or if you share an already released stock photo is fine. The warning is more about people sharing photos that they are NOT YET ALLOWED to share. Sometimes these photos are prototypes or may not be pieces that end up released. It's about not confusing the public and wanting to make sure they advertise their products properly and according to their company standards.

The reason they give these photos to contracted people, dealers, etc is so they can prepare their advertisements, store displays, etc so they are ready as soon as the release happens..getting the products to you quickly after release. Product setup can take a long time so the less delay the better, hence them giving the photos to these specific people early.

I think a lot of folks may be taking this as a copyright issue in general, and it's not. It's more like an information leak. Its about UNRELEASED photos being shared publicly when they shouldn't be....by contract. Usually stemming from dealers or "people on the inside" who KNOW they shouldn't be sharing them via their contracts. These things spread via the regular folks that see them and Shleich needs to get it under control, hence this message.

At least that's how I took it...I hope all that blabbing makes sense.....lol

Benga1996 wrote:

Thank you for sharing this, Kikimalou!

I would understand the mail if it was directed to a shop who published the pictures prior to the official date.
They have benefit from it, by extra sales. and have an unfair advantage over the other shops this way.
On the other hand, I do not get it when send to an collectors forum. We don't gain any money or goods by placing these on the site.
The pictures are only visible for members. So it's not like we place them on billboards or something like that.  

I agree with your first part. That's definitely part of the reason....BUT about why can't we post them here....well, the same reason. We may not be doing anything with them here but they can still be taken and shared by others who should not be doing so or were not allowed or contracted to have them in the first place.  

Anyone can easily take photos from the web. So people who are not allowed to have those photos can also take them from here and use them for their "pre-sales" and gain an unfair advantage. The company may only release those photos for certain dealers too. Probably bigger ones like chain stores and such so they can prepare their store displays and advertisements ahead of time and be ready. So smaller private dealers might have different contracts and don't get those photos ahead of time but yet if they are shared here, these smaller companies can just take them and use them and again gain unfair advantage to those following the rules and it messes with Schleich's release marketing. At least that's what I assume could be happening here.

Numaan wrote:

Kikimalou wrote:

- You can always publish your own photos from novelties, only when they will be available in a few months. For example if you have taken photos at an exhibition or fair. You are the owner of these photos, the copyright is yours.

Despite their information I hope they dont, as a result become a little stricter at next year's toy fair! I dont want to be stopped when trying to take photos.......

So this means that a photo of the 2017 Sloth for instance can be posted as long as it was a personal photo taken by me?  In which case use that image temporarily on the 'South american models by all brands' forum page.....

Yes !! They are fine with that and at toy fairs/ any exhibition for that matter, people r always making pics ! Should not be an issue at all !! Hurray !!

robinhoodfan wrote:

Benga1996 wrote:

Thank you for sharing this, Kikimalou!

I would understand the mail if it was directed to a shop who published the pictures prior to the official date.
They have benefit from it, by extra sales. and have an unfair advantage over the other shops this way.
On the other hand, I do not get it when send to an collectors forum. We don't gain any money or goods by placing these on the site.
The pictures are only visible for members. So it's not like we place them on billboards or something like that.  

I agree with your first part. That's definitely part of the reason....BUT about why can't we post them here....well, the same reason. We may not be doing anything with them here but they can still be taken and shared by others who should not be doing so or were not allowed or contracted to have them in the first place.  

Anyone can easily take photos from the web. So people who are not allowed to have those photos can also take them from here and use them for their "pre-sales" and gain an unfair advantage. The company may only release those photos for certain dealers too. Probably bigger ones like chain stores and such so they can prepare their store displays and advertisements ahead of time and be ready. So smaller private dealers might have different contracts and don't get those photos ahead of time but yet if they are shared here, these smaller companies can just take them and use them and again gain unfair advantage to those following the rules and it messes with Schleich's release marketing. At least that's what I assume could be happening here.

Yes thats what Schleich's message meant !! You have articulated it very well !!

JamesPanda wrote:

robinhoodfan wrote:

Benga1996 wrote:

Thank you for sharing this, Kikimalou!

I would understand the mail if it was directed to a shop who published the pictures prior to the official date.
They have benefit from it, by extra sales. and have an unfair advantage over the other shops this way.
On the other hand, I do not get it when send to an collectors forum. We don't gain any money or goods by placing these on the site.
The pictures are only visible for members. So it's not like we place them on billboards or something like that.  

I agree with your first part. That's definitely part of the reason....BUT about why can't we post them here....well, the same reason. We may not be doing anything with them here but they can still be taken and shared by others who should not be doing so or were not allowed or contracted to have them in the first place.  

Anyone can easily take photos from the web. So people who are not allowed to have those photos can also take them from here and use them for their "pre-sales" and gain an unfair advantage. The company may only release those photos for certain dealers too. Probably bigger ones like chain stores and such so they can prepare their store displays and advertisements ahead of time and be ready. So smaller private dealers might have different contracts and don't get those photos ahead of time but yet if they are shared here, these smaller companies can just take them and use them and again gain unfair advantage to those following the rules and it messes with Schleich's release marketing. At least that's what I assume could be happening here.

Yes thats what Schleich's message meant !! You have articulated it very well !!

Hehe, oh good glad that came across ok...that was all written pre-breakfast...and I usually don't make much sense pre-breakfast lol

[quote="robinhoodfan"][quote="JamesPanda"]

robinhoodfan wrote:

Benga1996 wrote:

Thank you for sharing this, Kikimalou!



Yes thats what Schleich's message meant !! You have articulated it very well !!

Hehe, oh good glad that came across ok...that was all written pre-breakfast...and I usually don't make much sense pre-breakfast lol

Hahaha , I did make sense of what you said though !!

I should not comment on it because I find it all absurd.
However, I want to thank the persons of the moderation team of this forum that are giving their faces to such a complicated matter in a very diplomatic way.
I am also glad of reading some of the comments once I share most of all our opinions, this is not definitely a question of copyrights, jut an information leak as it was very well mentioned before.
Moreover, a question of this kind should never be directed to a forum that is just a community of collectors, but to the responsible for sharing these pictures online and I am not referring to who linked them here, of course.
I turly feel that the forum is being used as a kind of messenger towards the real transgressors. Why?
I want also to recall that in December, the same person from Schleich, contacted the forum to ask our help to promote their new online shops. In exchange, they would start a kind of cooperation with our community. We did our part of the deal but where is the other part?
I don't want to expand more my dissertations about it because I really respect the work of these companies and also I have a huge admiration for the people that give their free time to make it a good place to everyone. I also want to avoid any negative feelings towards Schleich, they are a part of this hobby and I hope they respect us collectors as much as we respect them. So, we keep with open arms to a future cooperation.
@Numaann, I also hope that they will let you take pictures on toy fairs as you did before or these words from them could really sound pure hypocrisy. I am really positive that it won't happen and thanks a lot for your photo reports, they will be in future even more useful than they were already.

robinhoodfan wrote:

....
Hehe, oh good glad that came across ok...that was all written pre-breakfast...and I usually don't make much sense pre-breakfast lol

I know exactly how you feel
Don't speak to me, don't rattle with the bread, and don't sneeze !!!!

But you explained very well

My day has been anything but steller, but when i come online to escape it i find this????

DOes this mean i have to take down the images of the Acrocanthosaurus and Kentrosaurus in the PRehistoric Wild life Thread? Because either way. WE KNOW THERE COMEING OUT. SO STOP TRYING TO HIDE THEM FROM US SCHELICH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Takama wrote:

My day has been anything but steller, but when i come online to escape it i find this????

DOes this mean i have to take down the images of the Acrocanthosaurus and Kentrosaurus in the PRehistoric Wild life Thread? Because either way. WE KNOW THERE  COMEING OUT. SO STOP TRYING TO HIDE THEM FROM US SCHELICH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the pictures are taken by you, it's fine. It's just the official/stock photos being used too early, for example July figure pictures aren't contractually allowed to be released by anyone except Schleich until May.

I'm almost surprised they aren't threatening suit and demanding information on their perceived leaks.

This is frankly nonsensical, I can only assume this is out of some sort of vendetta against whomever distributed the images as they would have nothing else to possibly gain.

Interesting. Sounds like some of you had a busy weekend! Thanks for sharing, Christophe!

Tarunyada wrote:

Interesting. Sounds like some of you had a busy weekend! Thanks for sharing, Christophe!

We must thanks Yvette, Rogério and LeeAnn

I do not even know how to react to this.... I can not grasp my mind around it.

Rules from Schleich are clear, but why now?

And....
Those photos should be locked good, very good, right? For only contracted people to use them...
So why, oh why, can we (normal forum people ) get to those pictures in the first place?!
These must be a leak somewhere, go get them Schleich...

Or am I too narrow minded? XD

Kikimalou wrote:

Tarunyada wrote:

Interesting. Sounds like some of you had a busy weekend! Thanks for sharing, Christophe!

We must thanks Yvette, Rogério and LeeAnn

And of course Christophe!

Im almost reluctant to remove those photos.   They brainwash small buisness into thinking there the best toys out there, and forge reviews on Amazon so why do they deserv our respect? This is almost ludacriss     they should know that this is the internet, and stuff will get out if it enters the internet. Hell Safari has a better time hideing stuff then they ever could. ITs almost like there blameing us for there Screw up.