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 Show us yours: convergent evolution

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Wildheart

Wildheart

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PostSubject: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyMon Mar 05, 2012 9:39 am

I decided to start a different kind of ''show us yours'', this time focusing on convergent evolution.
Check the link for more info: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Convergent evolution is all about two distantly related organisms evolving similar appearances in order to adapt to the enverionment they live in. The wing is a perfect example of convergent evolution!

There are tons of examples we can come up with, I am really curious to see as many as possible. Very Happy
Here are my 4:

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dolphins and ichtyosaurs

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sea turtles and Henodus

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ankylosaurs and armadillos

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echidnas and hedgehogs

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Ana

Ana

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyMon Mar 05, 2012 8:22 pm

Fantastic idea for the topic Mihnea! I enjoy seeing the photos and I think I have an idea for my answer for the subject Wink
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SUSANNE
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyMon Mar 05, 2012 9:29 pm

I look very much forward to seing what this topic brings cheers

Yours are SO great, mihnea, you are a very knowledgeable young man study Very Happy

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Wildheart

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 8:22 am

cheers

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Ana

Ana

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 12:09 pm

Haha, my favorite long tongues Shocked Very Happy Razz
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Kristie

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 1:07 pm

What an exciting and thoughtful topic!

I have nothing to contribute, but I will surely enjoy watching this! :)

-Kristie
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75senta75

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 3:04 pm

This is a very good idea! Here is the old whooly rhino from Bullyland and the rhino from Schleich.

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Tiger from Schleich and his old relative, the Saber-Tooth tiger from Schleich.

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The Saber-Tooth tiger has probably a problem with the modern tiger from Papo.


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And here the old Saber-Tooth tiger with two friends form Schleich.


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ken yeo

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 3:20 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What an exciting and thoughtful topic!

I have nothing to contribute, but I will surely enjoy watching this! :)

-Kristie

Nothing to offer too! Just watching!

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aandmkw

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 4:04 pm

Great idea Mihnea.
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 4:36 pm

I think all of you have examples to offer. But this subject needed an introduction once these concepts are not always obvious mainly in a foreign language.
I don't want to make the role of a teacher or so once I'm not an expert but Mihnea is showing some traditional and dramatic examples of convergent evolution. I enjoy particularly the ichthyosaurus with the dolphin. The first is a reptile, so much closer related with a crocodile than with a dolphin that is a mammal. But they are really similar in shape.
A Ichthyosaurus is not a ancient dolphin. So, even they derive from completly different ancestours and lines of evolutions, they are very similar in appearance due to several aspects.
Woolly rhinos and modern rhinos are not necessarly an example of convergent evolution once they share a relatively recent common ancestral.
You can read a little in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] about this subject. :)
Ana, long tongues are also an example of convergent evolution! Laughing tongue

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SUSANNE
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 4:57 pm

Like the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] which looks almost exactly like a snake, but is really a lizzard without legs ? scratch Very Happy

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75senta75
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 4:58 pm

Yes, of course Roger, you're right. So, I have not thought exactly. The issue is more complicated than it first looks. Embarassed study study study study
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 5:58 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Like the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] which looks almost exactly like a snake, but is really a lizzard without legs ? scratch Very Happy

Exactly Susanne! :)
Even both are reptiles they achieved a similar shape in 2 different lines of evolution. As you are saying, slow worm looks like a snake but is a lizard. So closer related to legged lizards than with snakes. Not as dramatic as Mihnea examples but a perfect one. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 6:01 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes, of course Roger, you're right. So, I have not thought exactly. The issue is more complicated than it first looks. Embarassed study study study study

It sure is. Shocked
My head keeps trying to wriggle over to animals that are related, but don`t look alike scratch
Also I don`t know so much about it Laughing

But let me try. Basketball
I hope these are the right kind : Two horns on the nose and short legs alien

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From left :
- Arsinothereum from Safari. Related to the elefant.
- Rhinoceros laineux from Starlux, - an early rhino
- Brontotherium from Starlux, related to the horse !!!
("Related to" is according to Wikipedia) study elephant Very Happy

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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 6:07 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes, of course Roger, you're right. So, I have not thought exactly. The issue is more complicated than it first looks. Embarassed study study study study

Yvette, your pictures are very good and really interesting! :) I enjoy seeing how convergent are interpretations of Bullyland and Schleich for a different rhino species! flower
I also enjoy the humouristic cats! Laughing cat
The concept is not easy but not as hard as to know all horses' colors! Laughing Unless for me! Wink flower

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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 6:17 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes, of course Roger, you're right. So, I have not thought exactly. The issue is more complicated than it first looks. Embarassed study study study study

It sure is. Shocked
My head keeps trying to wriggle over to animals that are related, but don`t look alike scratch
Also I don`t know so much about it Laughing

But let me try. Basketball
I hope these are the right kind : Two horns on the nose and short legs alien

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

From left :
- Arsinothereum from Safari. Related to the elefant.
- Rhinoceros laineux from Starlux, - an early rhino
- Brontotherium from Starlux, related to the horse !!!
("Related to" is according to Wikipedia) study elephant Very Happy

Yes, Susanne! All rhinos are close related to horses. So the Arsinotherium is a very good example. It is from a different evolution line and looks clearly like a rhino. Curious point that the horns of arsinotherium are made of bone while from rhinos are made of keratin! :) Perfect example! :)
Sorry, I'm posting and posting and showing nothing but it is more i nteresting to follow the subject of the topic! Very Happy

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Wildheart

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 6:28 pm

Thanks alot Roger for the biology lesson! You are right, modern rhinos and wooly rhinos are closely related, that's not convergent evolution. But those prehsitoric beasts Susanne posted are surely quite distant from one another.

Btw, I did post a link to Wikipedia on top of the page for more info on the subject! Wink

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Wildheart

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Mar 06, 2012 6:29 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Haha, my favorite long tongues Shocked Very Happy Razz
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Sorry for quality of picture, it's taken from my mobile cam.

My favourites too!

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Gabe

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyWed Mar 07, 2012 12:56 am

Very interesting and nice idea, Mihnea. :)

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Philter4

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyThu Mar 08, 2012 4:17 pm

It may be easier to illustrate this in animals are extant (animals still alive today) rather then extinct animals because in extinct animals the relationships may not be apparent. A really good example of extinct convergent evolution is the dolphin and ichthyosaur as mentioned at the beginning but a better illustration of the armadillo and ankylosaur is the reptile ankylosaur and the mammals like glyptodon, the convergence is easier to see. Here are several examples that will illustrate the point, I don't have any good photos but you can easily look pictures of them up on the internet but the very best example to show this is seals (family Phocidae) and sea lions (family Otariidae). They look almost exactly alike but sea lions are most closely related to bears while seals are more related to weasels and otters. There is some evidence that they may have a common ancestor but this is not been accepted by most scientists or supported by enough evidence (even though some site this as fact like Wikipedia)

If you actually look at the animals the difference is so apparent that you can easily tell that they are not closely related. Watch some videos and you will see what I am talking about but here are just a few examples.

Seals have no external ear flap (just a small opening like a reptile) while seal lions have small ears.

Seals swim by moving the back flippers back and forth like a fish, sea lions swim with the front flippers, this makes them much faster and they move at the surface like a dolphin with nose first arcing dives, while seals are slower and surface and dive with the head and nose last like a person, first going underwater then beginning their forward progress.

Seals are what they call "belly walkers", they move across the dry sand like a caterpillar, rocking across the ground on the belly, seals walk with the front and back flippers more like a typical mammal, even though the flippers are short so it looks funny.

Seals can not turn the back flippers forward, sea lions can and do.

There are many more differences but those illustrate the differences even though if you just look at the two animals together you can easily think they are in the same family.

Another pair that shows this is a sugar glider and a flying squirrel. They look almost exactly the same but sugar gliders are marsupials and flying squirrels are rodents. Even though they are extinct, thylacine looks like a striped wolf but again is a marsupial, not a canine. Bats and birds are another example, they are very similar but not at all closely related. I could go on and on but these should give you many examples of what convergent evolution is.
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyThu Mar 08, 2012 11:16 pm

Interesting imput Phil! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyWed Nov 14, 2012 8:57 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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echidnas and hedgehogs
Does anyone know what company made the echidna and if there are other animals that belong to the same collection as him? I have one too that I fished out of the $0.10 bin at one of my local thrift stores. A nice, well-made figure of an unusual animal, I just couldn't pass it up. I've been pondering his provenance for the past couple years so was hoping someone here might be able to help me out.

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyWed Nov 14, 2012 9:20 am

It is a Science & Nature, and Australian company which is producing very fine and rare Australian species.

You can see them [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyWed Nov 14, 2012 12:34 pm

You can see lots of pictures here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Very Happy

The birds are beautyful also .

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyWed Nov 14, 2012 12:38 pm

Adding one more link to those Kiki and Susanne placed here. :)
You can find all the complete list of Science & Nature figures on Toy Animal Wiki... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptySun Mar 17, 2013 1:40 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I decided to start a different kind of ''show us yours'', this time focusing on convergent evolution.
Check the link for more info: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Convergent evolution is all about two distantly related organisms evolving similar appearances in order to adapt to the enverionment they live in. The wing is a perfect example of convergent evolution!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
sea turtles and Henodus

Never heard of a Henodus before Mihnea!

I have learnt something new today - thank you. Very Happy

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halichoeres

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyFri Sep 07, 2018 5:05 am

Phytosaurs lived during the Triassic period when most crocodile relatives were terrestrial. They're easily distinguished from true crocodiles by the position of their nostrils, which is much closer to the eyes. There are many other dissimilar features, but that's the easiest external marker. Despite the resemblance, phytosaurs aren't closely related to crocodiles, instead being stem-archosaurs, and hence about equally related to both birds/dinosaurs and crocodiles.

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Redondasaurus, a phytosaur (Favorite Co Ltd)

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Deinosuchus, a Cretaceous crocodilian (Safari Ltd Carnegie Collection)
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widukind

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyFri Sep 07, 2018 8:17 am

A interesting SUY

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyFri Sep 07, 2018 8:28 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
A interesting SUY

Indeed !

Thanks for bringing this up again, Hali cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyFri Sep 07, 2018 10:36 pm

That's a beautiful example of convergent evolution. I think that I belong there once I am a sarcosuchus. Laughing Such incredible figure that redondasaurus.

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyFri Mar 08, 2019 6:08 pm

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comparison between Panthera tigris (from Papo), a true cat and Thylacoleo carnifex (from Southlands), a cat-like marsupial.

2 noteworthy differences (moreover the marsupium of course!): the kangoroo-like tail and incisifs-fangs of Thylacoleo..

The cat form appeared several times in the past, among carnivora genus with nimravids, among placental mammals with creondont oxyaenidae, among marsupial mammals with Thylacoleo and Thylacosmilus..

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.."Hi mister Carnifex!.. how do you do?..
- ow! mister Tigris!.. well, as well a disapeared species!.."  :)


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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyFri Mar 08, 2019 9:09 pm

Laughing Funny presentation! These two are convergent in every single aspect, including the design concept. Two wonderful figures also with a high quality. Thanks Caracal! cat

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyFri Mar 08, 2019 9:23 pm

Wonderful idea Applause
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Caracal



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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptySat Apr 13, 2019 6:41 pm

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on left, true felids Machairodus, on right, felid-like Nimravid Eusmilus.
The "saber-tooth tiger" form appeared twice amongst Carnivora genus: first time with Nimravidae and later with Felidae. Nimravids had generaly shorter legs than Felid's ones and presented, at the lower jaw, apophysis which protected  upper fangs when the mouth was closed like later, somes felids machairontids (Meganthereon and Homotherium).

According to some  Paleontologist, the Felidae are closed to Hyaenidae or Viverradae than Nimravidae.

these 2 Bullyland replicas are very interesting because they represent 2 very few edited species. I don't know other Machairodus from others main brands (the Starlux one is not actually a Machairodus species) and I have also this Hinstar other Eusmilus (but I know another one from Geoworld):

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..like the others Hinstar prehistoric mammals, the sculpture which has been wanted spectacular, is not very accurate and its jaw apophysis are far too exagerate!..


Last edited by Caracal on Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:29 am; edited 3 times in total
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bmathison1972

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptySat Apr 13, 2019 9:09 pm

you guys should dig these examples of convergent evolution:

marsupial mole (Mammalia: Notoryctemorphia: Notoryctidae)
true mole (Mammalia: Eulipotyphla: Talpidae)
mole cricket (Insecta: Orthoptera: Gryllotalpidae)

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SUSANNE
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptySat Apr 13, 2019 9:37 pm

I love this topic cheers

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Caracal



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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyMon Apr 15, 2019 2:26 pm

another mistake must be corrected on "Toy Animal Wiki", the Instar Eusmilus above, is named and placed with True saber tooth Homotherium. But "Eusmilus" is writed under its belly , hence it should be placed with "false saber tooth Eusmilus"
Sorry to be "fussy" about cats!.. Very Happy
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Bowhead Whale

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyMon Apr 15, 2019 9:46 pm

Are you sure the figure with jaw apophysis is not a THYLACOSMILUS?
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyMon Apr 15, 2019 11:32 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
another mistake must be corrected on "Toy Animal Wiki", the Instar Eusmilus above, is named and placed with True saber tooth Homotherium. But "Eusmilus" is writed under its belly , hence it should be placed with "false saber tooth Eusmilus"
Sorry to be "fussy" about cats!.. Very Happy

Thanks for your observation. I renamed and replaced it. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Apr 16, 2019 12:21 am

Well, Valérie made me doubt and I check, "Eusmilus" is NOT writed under its belly!.. I apolologize for that mistake ..and don't understand why I was so sure of that.. probably by confusion with Bullyland Eusmilus!.. I think it has been sold to me on this name and it's on this name that it's presented on "Toy Animal Wiki" by "brands" at "Hinstar Toy".. Anyway it can not be an Homotherium because of its long tail and short legs but a Thylacosmilus?.. why not,.. it would explain its so long jaw apophysis (even if the tail is not a Thylaco's one but with a so few accurate replica..) scratch


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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Apr 16, 2019 1:09 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Well, Valérie made me doubt and I check, "Eusmilus" is NOT writed under its belly!.. I apolologize for that mistake ..and don't understand why I was so sure of that.. probably by confusion with Bullyland Eusmilus!.. I think it has been sold to me on this name and it's on this name that it's presented on "Toy Animal Wiki" by "brands" at "Hinstar Toy".. Anyway it can not be an Homotherium because of its long tail and short legs but a Thylacosmilus?.. why not,.. it would explain its so long jaw apophysis (even if the tail is not a Thylaco's one but with a so few accurate replica..) scratch

I've found it strange that being the TAW picture from Beatrice, that she hadn't noticed it was marked. She always examine her figures in detail. She even mentions it [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] However, it was not the first time a figure was found with different markings. So which species should I use? Which do you think is closest to the figure? I admire you in this once these figures look somewhat cartoonish and not easy at all to identify. Meanwhile, I will ask Beatrice if she listed it over a guess or if she found any official info. study

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Caracal



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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Apr 16, 2019 10:58 am

Yes Rogério, it's not easy to identify so unaccurate replicas but I am (almost!) sure it's an Eusmilus because of its long and supple tail which doesn't look at all the Thylacosmilus one.. I examinated on web some thylacosmilus figurines, they all present a kangoroo-like tail, even the cartoonist Geoworld one!..  all these brands often produce the same known taxons maybe under the influence of some books pictures like this one:

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This draw, from Sergio illustrator, shows an Eusmilus attacking an other nimravid: the Nimravus (which could escape and survive in spite of its terrible wound!). We can observe its long feline tail and its deep jaw apophysis, this draw could have been the model for this rather bad Hinstar replica!..
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Apr 16, 2019 10:57 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes Rogério, it's not easy to identify so unaccurate replicas but I am (almost!) sure it's an Eusmilus because of its long and supple tail which doesn't look at all the Thylacosmilus one.. I examinated on web some thylacosmilus figurines, they all present a kangoroo-like tail, even the cartoonist Geoworld one!..  all these brands often produce the same known taxons maybe under the influence of some books pictures like this one:



This draw, from Sergio illustrator, shows an Eusmilus attacking an other nimravid: the Nimravus (which could escape and survive in spite of its terrible wound!). We can observe its long feline tail and its deep jaw apophysis, this draw could have been the model for this rather bad Hinstar replica!..

I asked Beatrice and she haven't got the information from any official source. Those are just guesses or identifications found around and waiting for better guesses. It is just what you did so it is a eusmilus now. cheers

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Caracal



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PostSubject: Re: Show us yours: convergent evolution   Show us yours: convergent evolution EmptyTue Apr 16, 2019 11:07 pm

..I think it's right!.. thank you Rogério! :)
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