Phillip Segal - minor vintage UK manufacturer

This minor UK maker made lead figures in a very stylised, almost cartoony style, so not a brand likely to find favour with collectors who look for realistic modelling, however their cartoony style does appeal to some vintage collectors, particularly in the US, where they appeal to collectors of the equally cartoony lead 'dimestore' figures by Barclay and Manoil. They are rare, and often expensive figures to buy.

They were made at Christchurch, Dorset, on the south coast of England, near Bournemouth. Production started in 1938, stopped for the duration of WW2, restarted in 1947, and stopped again in 1951, when Phillip Segal died. Some of his moulds were sold on to new owners, and it is not clear how many figures have been made under new ownership.

In addition to the farm range, of which I have a few, in the photos, there was also a rare set of 12 even more cartoony zoo animals, some soldiers and wild west figures, football teams, and one mega-rare set which would appeal to some farm/village figure collectors, cricket players. I've often imagined the charming village green cricket match scene I could devise using some of my farm cottages, plus a village pub and a church in my collection, and a selection of Britains and others lead farmers and other village people, such as the clergyman, curate, the JoHillCo Innkeeper, the Pixyland/Kew beer drinkers, etc. as the audience. But alas, so far I don't have any Segal cricketers.   

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That's it for my Segal collection folks - I did say they were rare.

Very interesting old things!! Thank you for sharing        

Very very interesting topic    I remember a few zoo animals, the elephant, the panda, the dromedary, all with a very special touch and all very expensive   

I never saw so many Segal farm animals in one time   You have a fabulous collection  

Thanks once more Dave! I am not able of telling you how interesting I find these contributions from you!
I love to read about animal toy figurines world and it is always exciting when we learn something new. I hope someday youfind the cricketers.
Thanks again and I hope some more will follow!

Thanks for sharing that Dave. I am a grandson of Phillip and with my father we have a vast, although not extensive collection of Phillip Segal Toys. Unfortunately Phillip died when my father was very young and my grandmother had to sell the business and toys to get by and therefore the family retained very few.
I am always amazed by the amount of people who adore my grandfathers toys and it gives me a great sense of pride.
From looking at your lovely collection illustrated above, I would comment that I am not convinced that the white horse in the second row, three swans, chicks, two standing sheep and pigs are made by Phillip. The others look legitimate and are lovely examples.
Do you have any idea where the moulds are? Are there any other Segal toys in your collection?
Thanks for sharing!

olliesegal wrote:

Thanks for sharing that Dave.  I am a grandson of Phillip and with my father we have a vast, although not extensive collection of Phillip Segal Toys.  Unfortunately Phillip died when my father was very young and my grandmother had to sell the business and toys to get by and therefore the family retained very few.
I am always amazed by the amount of people who adore my grandfathers toys and it gives me a great sense of pride.
From looking at your lovely collection illustrated above, I would comment that I am not convinced that the white horse in the second row, three swans, chicks, two standing sheep and pigs are made by Phillip.  The others look legitimate and are lovely examples.
Do you have any idea where the moulds are?  Are there any other Segal toys in your collection?
Thanks for sharing!

Welcome here!    

olliesegal wrote:

Thanks for sharing that Dave.  I am a grandson of Phillip and with my father we have a vast, although not extensive collection of Phillip Segal Toys.  Unfortunately Phillip died when my father was very young and my grandmother had to sell the business and toys to get by and therefore the family retained very few.
I am always amazed by the amount of people who adore my grandfathers toys and it gives me a great sense of pride.
From looking at your lovely collection illustrated above, I would comment that I am not convinced that the white horse in the second row, three swans, chicks, two standing sheep and pigs are made by Phillip.  The others look legitimate and are lovely examples.
Do you have any idea where the moulds are?  Are there any other Segal toys in your collection?
Thanks for sharing!

Very welcome here     

A warm wellcome, Segal-grandson   

How fabulous to have you here ! Perhaps ( If you have time) you will do us the favour to show the collection that was saved in your family ???   

Dave your collection is so incredible, I am very, very much in love with these old, lovely models   

Being one of those Americans that enjoy the old toy-like toys, I greatly appreciate the Segal animals. Thanks for sharing the photo of your great farm collection. I have seen many of the wild animals in auctions from time to time. If anyone has a full list of all the animals they made it would be lovely to have it to add to the Toy Animal Collecting Wiki.

olliesegal wrote:

Thanks for sharing that Dave.  I am a grandson of Phillip and with my father we have a vast, although not extensive collection of Phillip Segal Toys.  Unfortunately Phillip died when my father was very young and my grandmother had to sell the business and toys to get by and therefore the family retained very few.
I am always amazed by the amount of people who adore my grandfathers toys and it gives me a great sense of pride.
From looking at your lovely collection illustrated above, I would comment that I am not convinced that the white horse in the second row, three swans, chicks, two standing sheep and pigs are made by Phillip.  The others look legitimate and are lovely examples.
Do you have any idea where the moulds are?  Are there any other Segal toys in your collection?
Thanks for sharing!

Hi Ollie,
I'm very pleased you saw my post, presumably by way of you doing a search for Phillip Segal Toys, and joining the forum when you saw it, and came to join the conversation. A toy dealer told me that some Segal family members are collecting the old figures, so I'm not entirely surprised you've turned up here.
You may be right about some of the animals not being Segal, as they are quite old photos, and it wouldn't be the first time I've changed my mind about who made what as new evidence is found, or I realise I made a mistake, as after all a lot of those old lead farm animals look pretty similar.
Although I realise the white horse is different to the Segal horses in Joplin's books, it is so much of the Segal Toys style, I can't think who else would have made it. I've read that when the business was sold there were more moulds than figures known in the catalogues, which is why I didn't automatically write it off as a Segal Toy, as presumably there are figures the collecting community doesn't know about.
A pig is included in the Segal list at the back of Joplin's yellow book, but no photo, and these pigs looked as though they could be Segal, so I guessed. If you have a photo of the actual Segal pig, a model from your collection or a picture from an old catalogue, it would be helpful.
The swan looks like the swan attributed to Segal in Joplin's blue book.
The standing sheep was another guess, on the basis that there are unknowns, and these look a bit 'toy like', so might be.
You're probably right about the chicks, just a guess at the time.  
I see I shall have to do more research on the standing sheep and chicks.

I don't have many more Segal figures, just a few Cowboys & Indians, in the photo here with some Wend-al C&I. The Segal ones are the 2 mounted figures, lying firing Indians and standing firing Cowboys.

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I also have a few of the semi-flat 'Dorset Series' farm figures. I'll look for a photo and add it in a few minutes if I find one.
Edit to add: Here it is, along with some other semi-flat farm figures. I think the landgirl, robin (Christmas cake decoration?) and the
unpainted castings are Segal.
Edit Saturday to add: Having just seen a photo in Joplin's blue book, I now think all these semi-flat figures are Phillip Segal 'Dorset Farmyard Series'. I'll have another look at my other semi-flat farm figures, to see if there are any more.  

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I did have 3 of the zoo animals, hippo, kangaroo and tiger, but they went in a swap to get some of the (higher priority for me) rare 1939-40 Britains (supplied by Hugar) wooden farm buildings.

I've no idea where the Segal moulds are now - you'll have to ask Norman Joplin about that. I imagine you've already been in contact with him, but if not, just Google his name and his website with email contact will come up.

Thanks for sharing your further pictures Dave.  You have a very good collection and a really nice set of cowboys and indians! It makes me so pleased that people around the globe love my grandfather's figures.

I have too many individual photos to share them all but some of my figures are on display in a make shift display case, until we move to a bigger house.  Please see below:

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My dad also has lots more figures.

I saw the Kangaroo at auction a few months ago but I didn't take it seriously enough and unfortunately missed out on it.  I wonder if this was the same Kangaroo included in your swap many years ago?  Where did you find the Kangaroo originally?  I would love to get hold of another Kangaroo if there are any others around and do have some really good toys to exchange.  We are also missing the Bison, otherwise we have a complete set of the Zoo animals.

The pig seem to be the most difficult farm yard animal to identify.  This is the pig I have been able to identify and I believe is identical to the original catalogue.  Picture as follows:

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What do you think?

I am delighted to hear of other peoples collection of my grandfather's toys as it can help build the story and show what variations were made.  Would anyone else like to share their collection?

I am also very interested in the manufacturers which acquired the moulds and then reproduced the toys.  I have a strung boxed set of cowboys and indians produced by North Park Toys for example.  For this reason I am also interested in both Clarke Brothers and Halberd Castings.

Without sounding like a sales pitch, I am always looking to extend the family collection and would like to hear from anyone who would like a swap or to sell anything relating to Phillip Segal Toys.

Oh and yes my Dad has been friends with Norman Joplin for years. Norman has been a fantastic help.

olliesegal wrote:

Oh and yes my Dad has been friends with Norman Joplin for years.  Norman has been a fantastic help.  

Welcome on forum, Ollie! It is great to have you here and I hope you can find everything you need related with your family business. :)
It is really interesting to everyone to see these old retired figures having a new life with the help of the Internet.
I think everyone could benefit if the company was better documented online.
As Tim commented, it would be fantastic to have complete lists of the figures released by Segal and share it to every collector interested using Toy Animal Wiki :)
If you follow the link, it is still a minimal entry and surely the company of your grand father deserves to be better represented on this Wiki with a valuable source to all collectors that want to know more about these figures.
So, if you can provide lists or catalogue information, it would be very appreciated.
Thanks for your and Dave's information about the company, I hope more people with knowledge about this matter joins to the discussion.
Enjoy!

Super collection!       
I've been keeping records of Segal figures (among many other makes) sold on eBay, at Vectis & similar auctions, and know those nursery rhyme sets fetch really big prices, even without boxes, so can only imagine how much your boxed sets of them would reach if properly auctioned.

That pig was made by Crescent, and is quite common, far too common to be a Segal Toy! I have 7 of them. Although there are two versions, some with 'made in England' on the side, some without. Did Crescent have 2 moulds? Are some of them (if so, which?) by another company? If so, Segal?
The same pig was also (later?) made by Benbros (I have one of these), but their version has the company name on the side. Benbros probably bought the mould from Crescent, as they also did with several Timpo lead moulds. This was probably about 1955-57, when Crescent & Timpo were switching to plastic production, but Benbros didn't make the change, so bought up some redundant moulds. Sometimes Benbros added their name to the mould, or just deleted the previous company name, or the only way to know is by how they're painted.  
I'll eventually get round to doing Benbros & Crescent threads.
Then, to add to the confusion, there were packaging companies such as Bayswick and Kay, who bought in figures from various manufacturers, and made up their own boxed sets, further confusion being caused by the manufacturers themselves (mostly close to each other in London) who bought figures from each other to make up boxed sets. For example, I have a Charbens boxed zoo set with a Cherilea bison in it.  

Still, all these long past, never recorded, events help keep us obsessives off the streets.      

Thank you.  Yes the Nursey Rhyme figures are dearly sought after by many collectors, hence their value has risen.  Unfortunately I am missing the boxed Old Woman In The Shoe and Goldilocks and Three Bears but otherwise we have all of them.

Interesting regarding the pig.  I show an extract from a Segal catalogue which makes me think that maybe the mould was a Segal (without any branding) and then Crescent acquired it and added it to their production?

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I know it is poor quality but the shape is fairly clear and it almost identical to the one I own.  Perhaps some of the pigs you have, without the branding, are Segal pigs?  What do you think?

What do you think about the Kangaroo mentioned in my previous post also?

First, the kangaroo. I've found an old photo with it on, to the left.
Note its large size, the Segal zoo animals didn't even to try to keep to a constant scale, and the unusual upswept tail:

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I see what you mean, seeing the Segal catalogue photo, which I hadn't seen before.
You may be right about Crescent buying the pig mould, particularly considering the sitting sheep, a figure which I had to double check today. There are two very similar sitting sheep, one with head slightly turned to the left, which is definitely Segal, and one facing straight ahead, which is definitely Crescent (in lots of their boxed sets), but from what you're saying about the pig in mind, this might also have originally been a Segal mould. I see you have two sitting sheep, but can't see clearly which ones (one of each?). Could you check please.  
Then we have to consider the pigs in detail. Assuming it started as an unmarked Segal mould, which Crescent modified by adding 'made in England', but when? There are several paint styles, some all pink (various shades), some with brush painted black spots, and some with spray painted black spots. So did Crescent add the made in England later, after initially using it unmarked? Or were there several moulds?
I've become aware over the years of researching old lead figures that there must have been lots of moulds of some figures, and the same item crops up in several countries, and moulds may also have been sold to home casters in the 1920s (a popular 'business venture' for the unemployed in the Great Depression), notably the kneeling firing rifle Indian in war bonnet, sold by Crescent and many others in the UK & US. It is known that Crescent bought moulds in a lot from other sources, presumably because it was cheaper than employing designers and specialists to make new moulds. Hey, they were toys!  

I hadn't realised that this post now ran over to two pages.  I was waiting for you to reply when you had, silly me!
Thanks for sharing the photo of the Kangaroo.  I would love to get hold of another one.
I have two sitting sheep which I believe to be Segal toys.  See photos as follows:

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The catalogue isn't too clear, see as follows:

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This mould business is very confusing.  I have come across the same issue with the cowboys and indians which have clearly been reproduced by other manufacturers.  The only way of telling them apart is the paint colours use.  Segal used certain colours and those who bought the moulds adopted their own.  You are totally right, this can drive us all mad.  However, to the trained eye, the shapes of the figures and the paints can be picked out to be unmistakenly Segal!  It is also worth remembering that Segal figures are all hollowcast.  If they are solid then they are reproductions.
I would love to know where these moulds, which have caused us so much difficultly, are now!

Ollie,
Any chance of posting whole pages of your old catalogue here please?   

Hi Dave, I am sorry but I am not sure I feel comfortable at doing that. If there is anything specific you want to check then please let me know!

My main interest would be any items not photographed in Norman Joplin's big yellow book, such as the farm series tree, large tree, feeding trough and fence.

Hello, some great animals in these series. I love the old more toy like animals from that era.
It would be lovely if you would consider sharing just a text list of the animals listed in your catalog and if they have company item numbers. At the Toyanimal.info Wiki we are working toward having as complete and accurate information about all makers as we can. Images can be provided by collectors of items they own at a future time. We tend to put lists on the main company page and then detailed information on the pages for each animal. An example created using my American Metal Toys collection can be seen at http://toyanimal.info//index.php?title=American_Metal_Toys

Our existing Segal page is very limited and anything we can add to it would be great http://toyanimal.info//index.php?title=Phillip_Segal_Toys
Thanks for the consideration.

Tiermann wrote:

Hello, some great animals in these series. I love the old more toy like animals from that era.
It would be lovely if you would consider sharing just a text list of the animals listed in your catalog and if they have company item numbers. At the Toyanimal.info Wiki we are working toward having as complete and accurate information about all makers as we can. Images can be provided by collectors of items they own at a future time. We tend to put lists on the main company page and then detailed information on the pages for each animal. An example created using my American Metal Toys collection can be seen at http://toyanimal.info//index.php?title=American_Metal_Toys

Our existing Segal page is very limited and anything we can add to it would be great http://toyanimal.info//index.php?title=Phillip_Segal_Toys
Thanks for the consideration.

For photos and listings (lots of lists!) you'd do well to buy a copy of Norman Joplin's 'The Great Book of Hollow-Cast Figures'. It is a huge book, and the paperback version is usually available cheap on eBay, Amazon, etc. The postage will probably cost more than the book price! First published in hardback in 1993, it is a little out of date in that some of the 'unknowns' are now known in the collecting community, and just a few mistakes, but on the whole is excellent, and will fill huge chunks of UK vintage animal info for the toyanimal wiki. Probably best to email Norman Joplin to ask permission before posting lots of his lists - he has a website, and now lives in the US.

Hi Dave, apologies for the delay in responding.  Please find a picture from the catalogue of the tree.  it give a general outline of the figure.  Have you come across any?

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No, never seen one. Thanks for that - I know what to look for now.

Photo is a bit fuzzy, but it seems the outline edge of the tree is much smoother and rounded than other similar lead flat trees, such as those by Britains, Crescent and JoHillCo, which have more leafy and twiggy outlines.

Any chance of a photo of the fence?
I guess lots of us vintage farm collectors have sections of unmarked, unidentified fence sections.

Hi Dave, I have no idea what the fence looks like. It is not photographed in the catalogue. I suspect, unless a strung boxed farm set with a fence turns up, we may never know and will just have to speculate. Hopefully someone has a boxed set in their loft/barn which will turn up one day in our lifetimes!
In terms of the tree, I know someone who has one! I have invited him to join this forum so you can always ask him to see a photograph if you like? Hopefully he will add a post shortly.... I do not know if this is the large or small tree as we have nothing to compare this against but I imagine that they would both have the same characteristics.