1/32 scale animals second part

The PNSO new Giganotosaurus is 1:33... close enough, considering there is a second specimen that often get quoted as being sightly bigger, between 2% and 8%, but it's an isolated dentary bone and animals are not isometric copies one of the other, so this information has not much value imho
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It will dwarf Roger's chickens. :affraid. Very cool figure.

I really love the dugongs!

Thanks, Bjarki!

Interesting to estimate the size of an animal based on its dentary bone. Is the PNSO's dentary bone 1/32 scale?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] perphaps, given the animal that owned it could be anything from 2% to 8% bigger than the holotype... or not, since it could as well came from a smaller animal but with a proportionally bigger head.

In paleontology, similar extimates are quite common, even if not really valuable. There are animals whose size is extimated from a single phalangeal bone or a caudal vertebra (or a femur lost in a flood which could as well having being a tree trunk).

The Colorata dugong from the Marine Mammals box:
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Poor creature! It was one of the first non-Britains animals I collected but it wasn’t allowed to enter the 1/32 reserve. I thought it was too small. Fortunately, there are STS forum members who keep an eye on things!

I measured it as 7.6/243 cm, Christoph as 8/256 cm. How should we measure dugongs? I sometimes present things as if they are uncontroversial when they aren’t. In the scientific literature, animals are usually measured in a straight line, “between pegs”. However, this doesn’t always happen and often articles don’t specify how the animals were measured.

Adulyanukosol et al. (2011) say about their dugong measurements: “All measurements were the straight length. However some people measured curve length. Adulyanukosol (2004) suggested that the curve length was about 10-15 cm greater than the straight length.” I haven’t found information about how dugong measurements were taken in other articles.

The next question is how to take the measurements of the model. Measuring the Colorata dugong over its spine isn’t quite correct because it isn’t in a straight line. On the other hand, the Colorata isn’t completely stretched out so measuring it between pegs isn’t quite right either. So we have to imagine how long it would be if it was stretched out, which is quite subjective. I imagine its length is about that shown by the red line in the photo:
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Here is the Colorata with the Kitan and Takara:
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Well I use a bit more curved line I guess, mine goes through the eyes for example, the truth is probably between 7.6 and 8

Yes, something like that. When I measure bent animals more than once, my measurements are often different. In this case, it doesn't matter for 1/32 scale though.

that's a nice dugong Roger! they all look good together.

When I get smaller models I always designate them as babies or sub adults

Welcome back, I was missing this thread!

Thanks. Sorry, I haven't had much time to post, but more to come ...

sunny wrote:

that's a nice dugong Roger! they all look good together.

When I get smaller models I always designate them as babies or sub adults

Cheating isn't allowed in the 1/32 reserve . But sometimes, when they look sufficiently young, they do get in unnoticed!

Nile crocodiles and saltwater crocodiles are fairly common in 1/32 scale because they are large species, but other crocodilians are less common. However, in the last few months I have collected quite a few. It started with four Play Visions crocodilians that I got from Cody:
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From left to right, we have a Johnston’s crocodile (or freshwater crocodile), a Cuban crocodile, black caiman and Orinoco crocodile. They all look very different in colour and morphology though I find it very difficult to determine how accurate they are as models.

Before I start discussing sizes, I should mention that crocodilians keep growing for many years after they become sexually mature. Males also tend to be substantially larger than females. As a result, crocodilian species have a large size range, which helps finding figures that can be used for 1/32 scale.

Let’s start with the black caiman:
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Its total length is 8.5/272 cm. Wikipedia says that black caimans can be up to 500 cm, but most are 220-430 cm. However, we need to be careful with extreme crocodilian sizes because people want them to be large and their size is often exaggerated. The largest black caiman reported in an original source that I could find was 371 cm (online data from Rosenblatt, 2021); I don’t know what the source for 500 cm is. Various growth models by Taylor et al. (2016) predict an average maximum size of around 178-189 cm snout-vent length (about 370 cm total length) for males. Because this is the average size that they can reach if they do not die before they reach their maximum length, some black caimans can grow larger, but 500 cm seems excessive. Da Silveira et al. (2013) et al. estimate that the size at sexual maturity of females is about 120 cm snout-vent length (about 230 cm total length), so the Play Visions is fine for 1/32 scale.

Next up, the Cuban crocodile:
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It has a total length of 8.3/266 cm. Some sources suggest that Cuban crocodiles can also be up to 500 cm, which is almost certainly an exaggeration. It is difficult to find much information about the size of Cuban crocodiles though; the largest I could find hard evidence for was a 274 cm female in a doctoral dissertation by Ramos Targarona (2013). However, males probably grow larger and if I understand correctly (the dissertation is in Spanish), Ramos mentions that the mean length of males in one study was 270 cm. Wikipedia says they have a maximum length of 350 cm, but I haven’t found the source of this. The smallest sexually mature female in Ramos Targarona (2013) was 172 cm, so my conclusion is that the Play Visions is fine as a large specimen.

Then we have the Orinoco crocodile, the only yellow crocodilian in my collection:
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It has a total length of 8.6/275 cm. Orinoco crocodiles are very large crocodiles. I haven’t really tried to find out what their maximum size is because the more relevant question is whether they can be as small as the Play Visions. Thorbjarnarson et al. (1993) report that the smallest nesting female in their study was 250 cm and a 273 cm male attempted copulation, so while the Play Visions is small, it does appear to be possible for 1/32 scale.

And here is the Johnston’s crocodile, also called a freshwater crocodile:
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I am sceptical whether the 8.9/285 cm total length is possible for 1/32 scale. Wikipedia says that males can grow to 2.3–3.0 m long, while females reach a maximum size of 2.1 m. However, in a review of studies, Tucker et al. (2006) found that the largest Johnston’s crocodile was 129.6 cm in snout-vent length, which would be 245 cm total length according to a formula by Edwards et al. (2017). In line with this, a growth model in Tucker et al. predicts an average maximum snout-vent length of 125.3 cm (237 cm total length). Perhaps, just perhaps, 8.9/285 cm is possible, but for the moment, it is going to be removed from the 1/32 reserve by the boss of the crocodilians:
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Before I got the quartet from Cody, I already had another Play Visions crocodilian, an American alligator, which I got from Yvette:
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Its total length is 8.7/278 cm. American alligators are probably better studied than any other crocodilian and we have pretty good size data. Brunell et al. (2015) reported a 450 cm long American alligator and argue quite convincingly that reports of larger specimens are likely to be unreliable, while Deem et al. (2021) recorded the largest female American alligator at 322 cm total length. Wilkinson et al. (2016) reported that the smallest female captured at its nest was 213 cm.

More crocodilians next time.

Very fine range of 1/32 scale crocodilians!

these are really nice! I didn't realise there were so many crocodile species!
I grew up with the salties in the NT in Australia. I was out in a dinghy once and a huge saltie was sunning itself on the bank. The saltie was bigger than the dinghy :/ That was a very memorable experience.
And I also grew up with the Nile crocodiles in Zambia! Once when I was very small, I went with our houseboy to his village and we had to cross a small river. It wasn't until I got back home that I realised my parents were aghast that I'd crossed the crocodile infested river with him!!

After Crocodile-Dundee, Crocodile-Sunny!  

Have a nice day Annette!

Thank you, Alain and Annette! Glad you managed to survive the crocodiles, it must have been quite an adventure. I work in Dundee, but no crocs here

Caracal wrote:

After Crocodile-Dundee, Crocodile-Sunny!  

Have a nice day Annette!

ha ha thank you Alain!

rogerpgvg wrote:

Thank you, Alain and Annette! Glad you managed to survive the crocodiles, it must have been quite an adventure. I work in Dundee, but no crocs here

yes it was an adventure for both!
ha ha that's funny! you just happen to work in Dundee and we're talking about crocs

I like the Grunge outfit of your crocodiles. I didn't know about Annette's experiences with crocodiles, it sounds amazing to me.
The Open Toys Orinoco crocodile is surely larger than the Play visions one, I have one, I don't know if you ever asked me to measure it. If you want and you think it is convincing enough for an Orinoco croc, I can check its size next time I'm back home.

Thanks, the Open Toys looks quite nice and may work as a very large Orinoco crocodile. I'd be interested in its exact size (measured over the spine following the curves). Was it specifically marketed as an Orinoco croc?

rogerpgvg wrote:

Thanks, the Open Toys looks quite nice and may work as a very large Orinoco crocodile. I'd be interested in its exact size (measured over the spine following the curves). Was it specifically marketed as an Orinoco croc?

Yes, it was specifically identified as an Orinoco crocodile and it doesn't look at all as a generic croc figure. I'll probably take more than a week to be back home but I will try to remember about it. Don't worry, I know exactly how to measure a crocodile.

Let’s get back to the crocodilians. It has been very busy in the 1/32 reserve because lots of animals had to get a bath, travel arrangements had to be made for others and many had to be registered for the reserve. I also got distracted by the Play Visions Johnston’s crocodile, who doesn’t want to accept its removal from the reserve. It showed me this graph by Doody et al. (2019, Animal Conservation):
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Mean lengths of Johnston’s crocodiles between 3 and 3.5 m . Other articles say that their maximum total length is 300-310 cm and I haven’t even found any actual measurements of Johnston’s crocodiles over 2.5 m. I think the PV is faking the data .

Being an American company, Safari has made quite a few American alligators. I managed to get four Safaris in 1/32 scale:
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All are from the Alligators Alive TOOB (2009), except the second from the right, which is from the River TOOB (also 2009). From left to right, their total length is respectively 9.0/288, 9.2/294, 8.3/266 and 9.8/314 cm. While I mentioned that 450 cm is the maximum recorded length for an American alligator, this is far from the typical size. For example, in a study by Woodward et al. (2015), most alligators were 183-364 cm. I don’t think the Safaris are the best alligator models. Their legs are rather large compared to their body. This is especially the case with these two:
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The teeth in the open mouth are painted a bit roughly too. The body proportions of the alligator with young and the one from the River TOOB aren’t great either, but a bit better:
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Another American alligator comes from the recent CollectA Reptiles and Amphibians box:
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It's a nicely sculpted alligator. I like the fact that it stands on its legs rather than crawls or lies down like most crocodilian models.

Its length is 7.7/246 cm. Here is a comparison of the American alligators:
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The Safari with open mouth didn’t want to be in the photo. She is probably too embarrassed after what I said about her.

This post isn’t about Nile crocodiles, but because the CollectA box contained one I’ll show it too:
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It is 9.0/288 cm long. Alexander and Marais (2007) found that Nile crocodiles are 280-350 cm, Garrick and Lang (1977) claim that they are 300-450 cm and according to Cott (1961), the average length of Nile crocodiles from Uganda and Zambia in breeding maturity was 3.16 m. So I think the CollectA may just be possible as a very small female Nile crocodile.

I got two crocodilians from recent Safari TOOBs too. One is a black caiman from the South American TOOB (2021). While it is a different species from the older Safari American alligators, this is clearly a much better sculpt. Gone are the thick legs:
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The caiman is 10.8/346 cm. As I mentioned previously, the largest black caiman I have found good evidence for was 371 cm, so the Safari is fine for quite a large one in 1/32 scale.

It looks very different from the Play Visions black caiman. I find it hard to tell which one is more realistic; all crocodilians look very similar to me and they seem to vary a lot in colour within the same species.
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Finally, we have a gharial (or gavial) from the Asian Animals TOOB (2022):
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It is 10.6/339 cm and presumably represents a female because it lacks the snout knob that is typical of adult males. Gharials can grow very large, possibly over 6 m in total length, although I haven’t verified the maximum size. Stevenson and Whitaker (2010) say that females reach maturity at around 3 m total length, while Whitaker and Basu (1982) say that their minimum breeding size is 2.6 m.

Finally, a comparison of the smallest (CollectA American alligator, left) with the largest (Safari black caiman, right) and an example of a Nile crocodile with a fairly typical size (Ania).
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good to know! but what about Starlux, Britains, Elastolin or Prior crocodilians? Are they all at 1/32 scale?

Ah, yes, this post was about crocodilians that aren't Nile or saltwater crocodiles. I think most of the vintage crocodiles are meant to be Nile crocodiles. I wrote a post on the Britains crocodiles [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] And a post on saltwater crocs [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Starlux made a gharial. I don't have it. Do you know its size?

I 'll tell you when I 'll be back home.. Thank you for the links Roger! :)

The American alligator standing on its hind legs looks quite impressive. It's the same pose as the CollectA model, which is typical for alligators, as true crocodiles tend to crawl or walk with their legs wide open.
The caimans seem to have a similar quality, but the colors of the Play Visions are a bit exaggerated!
Identifying crocodile species can be challenging. The best way is to group them into crocodiles, alligators, and gharial. In most cases, crocodiles have V-shaped heads when viewed from above, while alligators have U-shaped heads. Caimans belong to the alligator group, although their heads are slightly different. Caiman heads resemble the heads of young crocodiles. That's how I can tell that Safari and Play Visions sculpted caimans instead of using generic croc molds.
Gharials are easy to identify with their pinocchio-like snout! Only the false gharial is somewhat similar.
Using colors for identifications is not easy; most crocodiles are similarly colored, and there's some variation among specimens. Maybe the easiest to distinguish is the Cuban crocodile.
I'm almost sure that many crocodile figures labeled simply as "crocodiles" are supposed to represent Nile crocodiles, and this isn't exclusive to vintage models. However, there's much more diversity among modern figures.
In the past, I used to list all crocodiles from major brands as Nile crocodiles on TAW when the species was not provided.
Sorry for my long post, I think I got excited about the subject.