Species identification topic

Is it the 1998 version? Toy Major uses to call them gazelles but they look more like a larger antelope species. like an oryx or so.

Thank you Rogério, yes it is from 1998, here between 2 other gazelles from Schleich and CollectA:


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Caracal wrote:

Thank you Rogério, yes it is from 1998, here between 2 other gazelles from Schleich and CollectA:


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

If you want to use with these two you have to use it as a gazelle.
We discussed other related models before and we never concluded anything absolutely indisputable. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you can read my opinion about the 2002 model which seems to be an updated version of this one. Face and pose are the same, a very long tail not very common in gazelles and in the largest model we can even see clearly a mane.
Thanks for comparison picture, it gives a good perception of the size of this small model.

Thank you for the link Rogério, it seems we have another cryptozoologist discovery!

Caracal wrote:

Thank you for the link Rogério, it seems we have another cryptozoologist discovery!

It was Chap Mei before but Toy Major is also very good mixing feature of different animals like the long-horned gnu marked buffalo or this unbelievable chiimpanzee.

Wow! a Pan mandrillus!

Caracal wrote:

Wow! a Pan mandrillus!

Yes, this guy surely has a place in the team of the aberrations of this hobby. It has actually a great artistic level but scientifically is a disaster. Though, it turns the figure somehow appealing to me. I would love to have one in my collection.

Good afternoon, note this interesting detail of this lion in TAW, it is like an African lion but it has a mane on its belly, which I suppose is not an African lion, but Barbary but I would like it to be be sure if it is Barbary and this lion from PV also shows that it has a mane so someone help me to know if they are Barbary and another subspecies [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think you will find a few more lions and lionesses with those hanging hairs on belly and folds too.
It looks like a Barbary lion, I don't know how we can be sure but notice that barbary lions were just a population of [/i]Panthera leo leo[/i] - they're not a subspecies, just a population.

yes it is what I have noticed that there are many in TAW but then it was not a subspecies like the one in the cape and I am also confused why I see many with black hair

These two subspecies:
- Panthera leo leo (Northern lion)
- Panthera leo melanochaita (Southern lion)

Subclades of P. l. leo
1. Barbary lions + Asiatic lions
2. - West African lion
3. Central African lion

Subclades of P. l. melanochaita
1. Northeastern Africa lion
2. Southwestern Africa lion
3. Southeastern Africa lion

Cape lions were an extinct subspecies and now they are considered an extinct population and what is more bizarre is that it is considered the type specimen of the Southern lion subspecies and not just one population of a subclade.

It is a very good discussion but it is also very complex to translate it on TAW were we try to balance a correct taxonomic tree with the tradition on this hobby using Wikipedia layout to keep editing work consistent.
Cape lion is an excellent example since the only figure listed there was specifically marketed as a Cape lion.
This modern classification is from 2017 but the figure was released probably 30 years ago when Cape lion was identified as a subspecies. TAW Cape lion page is from 2015, thus prior to this new classification.
Does it need to be updated? Correct.
Now, take in consideration lion is the biggest page on TAW and almost all figures are simply marketed as lions (species level).
To split it into Northern and Southern lion is terribly complex and actually, all Southern lions should be grouped with the Cape lion which would remove a culturally significant identification.
Also, all the Northern lions should be grouped with Barbary and Asiatic lions which are culturally important and morphologically identifiable from the other two subclades.
I will update all these pages to reflect the 2017 classification but dividing into Northern and Southern I think it is not possible for now.
I will also remove the cave lion from tthe lion page since it has now full species status.
It is a certainty that the page for African lion is now useless what is a huge problem and I'm convinced most of them intend to represent the Southern subspecies. Though, even those sets geographically identified like the Colorata Ethyopian lion are ambiguous because Ethiopia have both subspecies.
Alternatively we can transform the African lion page into Southern lion page and in case of doubt list a lion (unspecified) figure as a Southern lion.
Some figures marketed indisputably as Southern lions are:
- 1997 K&M Serengeti Bulk lion
- Play Visions lion of the Serengeti Wildlife
- Play Visions lioness of the Okavango National Park
- Safari lion and lioness of the South African Animals TOOB (really?)
- Saffari 2011 WS Angolan lion and his family
- Takara Ania lion with meerkats

Most of the lions used in circuses were Northern lions so maybe it is sensate to assume those from circus series as Northern lions and clearly some vintage figures are Barbary lions even if they were never marketed like this.

Since my post goes to long, here is what I will do for now:
- Remove the African lion page moving all figures to Lion page.
- Remove Cave lion from lion page moving it to full species... what about renaming it to Steppe lion?
- Update asiatic lion page identifying as a population and not as a subspecies

Now I feel calm, I already understood you and the theme of the lions is clearer to me, but then, what do you move all of TAW, there are photos that are needed and I have figures that are not there, I don't know if I can take take them and you upload them because if I see that they are missing I will register but I cannot log in and then since you are the one who moves it you will be able to upload photos of the missing animals.?

Leoo Past wrote:

Now I feel calm, I already understood you and the theme of the lions is clearer to me, but then, what do you move all of TAW, there are photos that are needed and I have figures that are not there, I don't know if I can take take them and you upload them because if I see that they are missing I will register but I cannot log in and then since you are the one who moves it you will be able to upload photos of the missing animals.?

Do you have an editor account for TAW?
If not, you can ask it through this link and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] will ggive you TAW login access.
If you could edit directly, it would be better since I am currently overloaded with pictures.
As an alternative, you can also share your pictures of missing figures [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Though, if none of these options is convenient for you, sure you can send the pictures to me and I upload them myself.Just let me know and I message you my e-mail address if needed.
By the way, I already updated tthe lion page after our posts.I hope it is better now even if the changes are subtle.

Thanks friend yes let me see if I can recover My account so you can upload the photos If not I will send them to you

Leoo Past wrote:

Thanks friend yes let me see if I can recover My account so you can upload the photos  If not I will send them to you

I don't need your account to upload the photos, I can do it using my own account.
You will need your account if you want to upload the pictures yourself.
I can reset your password if you wish.
Just message me your username and a valid e-mail address and the new password will be sent to your e-mail.

It's going, it's going, I'll send you a PM

Roger wrote:

Caracal wrote:

Thank you Rogério, yes it is from 1998, here between 2 other gazelles from Schleich and CollectA:


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

If you want to use with these two you have to use it as a gazelle.
We discussed other related models before and we never concluded anything absolutely indisputable. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you can read my opinion about the 2002 model which seems to be an updated version of this one. Face and pose are the same, a very long tail not very common in gazelles and in the largest model we can even see clearly a mane.
Thanks for comparison picture, it gives a good perception of the size of this small model.

Maybe you could use it as a "not so bad" Pelzeln's gazelle ?

Pelhseln's gazelle?

Yet me!

According to you, what species are these equids from please?


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They are common on flea markets here, in France, because they were from very cheap Blue Box farm sets in which many models were very inspired from Britains ones like this black dog for exemple whose model is the Britains wolf:


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In these farm sets, they probably were supposed to be donkeys or mules but as the dog above, I think (and I am not alone!) that their model is rather a wild equid, Equus hemionus. With their little and thin ears, they don't look like donkeys or mules but make me think to hemiones..

Caracal wrote:

Pelhseln's gazelle?

I can't see a closer gazelle than this one but if you have more pics ?

The "mule-donkey" look abit like the first Briatins zebra and could be a good onager, why not ? If you have too much of them i would be happy to invite an unpainted one

I didn't know that Pelzeln's gazelle, it seems it's a sub-species of dorcas gazelle but its horns are a little curved.. I suspect this TM antelope is another cryptozoologic species!

About these equids, if they are Hemiones (or Onagers if you prefer) as I think, they are the only ones ever released!  (and it's OK, I keep the all white one for you)

here 2 pictures more:

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Thanks for the hemione onager And for the pic ! Why not an odd Galla oryx ? Or a Gazella chinensis bazaari ?

Sub sp. chinensis bazaari for sure!

Jecsan shark: Species please ?

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Maybe it is too optimistic to find a speciies but probably something close to a Porbeagle .