Primitive Horse breeds & Prehistoric equines

Hi all! I'm looking for some horse breeds that have a "primitive" look to them, something that can complement a Pleistocene / Ice Age display. Can anyone reccomend some good models that exist on the market?

I already know about the 3 Przewalski's from CollectA, Safari and Shcleich. But I am not fond of their inaccurate sculpts.
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What about the CollectA Mongolian? It's classified as a 'domestic' horse but it's essentially unchanged since its domestication.

Yes, I was going to say the CollectA Mongolian, also the Konik and Exmoor from the same brand, although they're modern breeds they are said to be very primitive in heritage without modern crossing and mixing to alter the type like a lot of Native breeds, which have actually ended up with a lot of Arabian and TB to 'improve' them. And they match the colours on your chart there.
Just be aware the Mongolian and Konik would work together in a scene cos they're similar size, but the Exmoor model is quite a bit smaller, so it'd be fine alone but might not look good beside the others if you wanted a herd.

I also suggest the Portuguese Sorraia from Schleich. It is a horse which preserves morphological features of the European wild horse, Tarpan. Some studies pose some doubts about the connection but the morphology is quite similar.
Also, this is a wild color and atitude.
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bmathison1972 wrote:

What about the CollectA Mongolian? It's classified as a 'domestic' horse but it's essentially unchanged since its domestication.

Yes definitely looking at the Mongolian. Been doing some reading on old horse breeds and the Mongolian is on almost all the lists that I see.
Maybe one day CollectA will revisit the Przewalski too so I have something to accompany the Mongolian!

I feel CollectA's horses are hit or miss. But in my non-horse person opinion, the face sculpt is quite attractive. He's quite the handsome lad.
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George wrote:

Yes, I was going to say the CollectA Mongolian, also the Konik and Exmoor from the same brand, although they're modern breeds they are said to be very primitive in heritage without modern crossing and mixing to alter the type like a lot of Native breeds, which have actually ended up with a lot of Arabian and TB to 'improve' them. And they match the colours on your chart there.

Thanks for the suggestions! Will be looking at the Konik and Exmoor too! Though, do you feel that the legs on CollectA sculpts are too thick most of the time? It's particularly noticeable on the models of the two listed breeds, which is weird as CollectA's Grevy's Zebra from 6 years ago doesn't seem to suffer as badly, and muscle definition seems to have gotten smoother in recent horse releases.
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Quote :

Just be aware the Mongolian and Konik would work together in a scene cos they're similar size, but the Exmoor model is quite a bit smaller, so it'd be fine alone but might not look good beside the others if you wanted a herd.

I'm generally not too fussy on scale, but is the size difference between the models really that noticeable? Do you have a comparison picture I can reference?

Roger wrote:

I also suggest the Portuguese Sorraia from Schleich. It is a horse which preserves morphological features of the European wild horse, Tarpan. Some studies pose some doubts about the connection but the morphology is quite similar.
Also, this is a wild color and atitude.
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Picture from Toy Animal Wiki

That mane and pose certainly has an attitude!  Added to my wishlist for consideration as well.

From just quick image searches, it appears that the Sorraia, along with many other ancient breeds also retain coat characteristics similar to primitive horses. A shame that the models themselves don't depict such markings e.g. leg bars, wither stripes. But that should be an qucik & easy customisation job with a marker.
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FlaffyRaptors wrote:

Yes definitely looking at the Mongolian. Been doing some reading on old horse breeds and the Mongolian is on almost all the lists that I see.
Maybe one day CollectA will revisit the Przewalski too so I have something to accompany the Mongolian!

the Mongolian wild horse and Przewalski are the same species, just different names.

this is from wiki -
Przewalski's horse, also called the takhi, Mongolian wild horse or Dzungarian horse, is a rare and endangered horse originally native to the steppes of Central Asia. It is named after the Russian geographer and explorer Nikolay Przhevalsky.

A couple of other supposed ancient breeds that I've come across, can anyone vouch for these models or breeds? I don't know a lot about horse breeds, but I do know that I don't want any breed that's been mixed with Arabians, TBs or WBs.

CollectA 88749 Camargue (2016); I can't help but notice it's extremely similar to the 2021 Konik Mare.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


CollectA Fjord Stallion (2013) vs Mojo Fjord Mare (2012); which model is more accurate and true to the breed? I feel that the CollectA suffers from the same issue as their 2013 Przewalski with an overly compressed torso.
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CollectA Dartmoor Stallion (2013) vs CollectA Dartmoor Mare (2015); old release so sculpt might be showing it's age? And are Exmoors basically the same thing making getting a Dartmoor redundant?
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CollectA Yakutian Stallion (2022); horse breed famous for it's ability to withstand the harsh Siberian winter, along with it's use in the Pleistocene Park project... and CollectA decides to depict it in it's much less interesting summer coat... Missed opportunity there imo.
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FlaffyRaptors wrote:

Hi all! I'm looking for some horse breeds that have a "primitive" look to them, something that can complement a Pleistocene / Ice Age display. Can anyone reccomend some good models that exist on the market?

I already know about the 3 Przewalski's from CollectA, Safari and Shcleich. But I am not fond of their inaccurate sculpts.
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I love prehistoric fauna and primitive horse breeds too!

I repainted some of my little 1/32nd scale Britains zebras into Mongolian wild horses, and next up I will be repainting some as the North American Hagerman Horse!
have you heard of them? the images on google look beautiful.

I'm very excited to see your herd develop :)

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Hagerman horse
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sunny wrote:

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

Yes definitely looking at the Mongolian. Been doing some reading on old horse breeds and the Mongolian is on almost all the lists that I see.
Maybe one day CollectA will revisit the Przewalski too so I have something to accompany the Mongolian!

the Mongolian wild horse and Przewalski are the same species, just different names.

this is from wiki -
Przewalski's horse, also called the takhi, Mongolian wild horse or Dzungarian horse, is a rare and endangered horse originally native to the steppes of Central Asia. It is named after the Russian geographer and explorer Nikolay Przhevalsky.

I've found contradicting information on Wikipedia regarding the Mongolian Horse -
"They have a slight resemblance to Przewalski's horse and were once believed to have originated from that subspecies. However, that theory was disproven in 2011 by genetic testing."

So it appears they remain separate subspecies. With the Mongolian horse being F. f. callabus and the Przewalski being F. f. przewalskii.

I personally notice different morphological features separating the two as well. Especially in coat colour diversity, where the Przewalski is notably more consistent compared to the more diverse Mongolian. Moreover, I don't beleive Przewalskis express stars on their foreheads; and Przewalski's white muzzle is consistenly more pronounced than in Mongolians.

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

But in my non-horse person opinion, the face sculpt is quite attractive. He's quite the handsome lad.

Yes, he definitely is, one of those horses which captures the look of the breed so well, the handsomeness without being 'pretty' in an overly refined way.

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

Though, do you feel that the legs on CollectA sculpts are too thick most of the time?

I'm generally not too fussy on scale, but is the size difference between the models really that noticeable? Do you have a comparison picture I can reference?

Yes, I've been bemoaning the chunky leg issue every single time I buy and review new CollectAs! Ssdly it seems all the newer moulds are affected, from around the time Breyer took over as the distributor of CollectA models in the USA - a lot of, uh, CollectA-collectors () suspect that the amount of influence Breyer have over the brand extends to asking for thicker legs to make them more resistant to play, so they can be marketed even more heavily toward the children-trotting-them-round-the-carpet audience, rather than more mature and careful teen/adult buyers who want them for a hobby collection. And yet, CollectA are currently re-releasing older sculpts in new colours, and those have the slimmer legs, so I'm not sure how much truth there is in the theory

I don't have a photo of the Exmoor and Konik/Mongolian to hand, and it's 2.30am where I am so I can't really get one til tomorrow. But I will, if no-one else supplies one first

sunny wrote:

the Mongolian wild horse and Przewalski are the same species, just different names.

That's perfectly true, but CollectA's isn't a Mongolian wild horse, it's a Mongolian horse. As in, the ones kept in herds in Mongolia, traditionally by nomads but not always. They're ridden for transport, racing, and fun, and come in lots of varied colours. The promo pic by CollectA shows one standing with a saddle and a yurt, he's definitely been released as a Mongolian the domestic breed, rather than Mongolian Wild Horse.

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

A couple of other supposed ancient breeds that I've come across, can anyone vouch for these models or breeds?
CollectA 88749 Camargue (2016); I can't help but notice it's extremely similar to the 2021 Konik Mare.[

CollectA Fjord Stallion (2013) vs Mojo Fjord Mare (2012); which model is more accurate and true to the breed?

CollectA Dartmoor Stallion (2013) vs CollectA Dartmoor Mare (2015); old release so sculpt might be showing it's age? And are Exmoors basically the same thing making getting a Dartmoor redundant?

CollectA Yakutian Stallion (2022); horse breed famous for it's ability to withstand the harsh Siberian winter, along with it's use in the Pleistocene Park project... and CollectA decides to depict it in it's much less interesting summer coat... Missed opportunity there imo.

The Camargue model is really lovely, and you do avoid the thicker leg issue on the newer Konik mould by going for the older Camaergue one, but lose out on the dun colour which is such a strong indicator of a primitive horse that I'd rather go for the colour being typical rather than the mould being ever so slightly nicer!

I like both Fjords, which isn't a lot of help But remember their upright manes are cut like that, rather than being a natural trait of the breed - if you don't give a fjord a regular haircut, it's mane will flop over and grow just as long as any other pony. And the trim is too sharp-looking on both these sculpts to pass as a naturally spiky mane for a wild horse.

The Dartmoor is an older sculpt, yes, but in my opinion it's one of the best they ever had, and far superior to the exmoor in terms of proportion, detail, clarity, and expressive spark. But Dartmoor ponies have had a lot of outside influence over the years, there's a good dose of Arabian blood in there, as well as TB through the Welsh B crossing which was done to 'improve' them as a show pony last century. So even though they're a native breed, and some of their ancestry is true british wild horse, there's an awful lot in them which isn't, and they don;t have a primitive look at all. Which is a shame, cos the CollectA Dartmoor is gorgeous!

Exmoors and Dartmoors are very different despite coming from roughly the same end of the country and a moorland habitat. One's a rough little scrapper of a horse which could do perfectly well if it never saw a human being again, hardy as can be and with very sharp instincts for herd behavior and self preservation, one's a riding pony which needs a lot more care and management to stay well and sound and sane. I've ridden both and they couldn't have been more different in personality either, there's a saying 'if you can ride an exmoor you can ride anything' and wow do they live up to it, but the dartmoor was a nippy little genius of a horse who was sure-footed and up for any adventure if you could get him on your side Now I have a New Forest and she's worse than either of them - I'm really not making British Native breeds sound great here, am I

I agree about the summer coat, they could've had a textured little hairball of a Yakut pony! I hadn't considered that one, again it would look nicely 'wild' and they're a primitive got-that-way-by-natural-selection breed rather than one with hot blooded horse crossed in. Again, a shame not to have a dun or bay as they're the oldest colours, but I was disappointed when they didn't do it dun anyway, so many Yakuts are!

Hope this helps, as I said it's very very late here so I'm probably rambling and not answering the questions properly, but will be back for more after I've got some sleep

sunny wrote:

I repainted some of my little 1/32nd scale Britains zebras into Mongolian wild horses, and next up I will be repainting some as the North American Hagerman Horse!
have you heard of them? the images on google look beautiful.

I'm very excited to see your herd develop :)

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Nice work on the repaints! Always lovely to see primitive markings on horse models, and you've captured those details beautifully. Some people say that primitive markings are "vanilla" or "boring", but I personally prefer them as I mainly collect prehistorics and wild models. Looking forward to seeing your E. simplicidens repaint too!


Yes I've heard of the Hagerman Horse! A shame there isn't a model of it on the market, especially since it's one of the oldest members of Equus, but not surprising since prehistoric horses asa whole rarely if ever get any attention. I'm particularly fond of this reconstruction below by Beth Zaiken:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


And finally, very excited to delve into horses. I've kick started my horse collection with Miguel's fantastic Miocene 3-toed Horse Hipparion primigenium (don't have it on hand yet, but will eventually once he's finished with the Eucladoceros) and Bullyland's Anchitherium; looking to expand my herd over the coming years!
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FlaffyRaptors wrote:

I've found contradicting information on Wikipedia regarding the Mongolian Horse -
"They have a slight resemblance to Przewalski's horse and were once believed to have originated from that subspecies. However, that theory was disproven in 2011 by genetic testing."

So it appears they remain separate subspecies. With the Mongolian horse being F. f. callabus and the Przewalski being F. f. przewalskii.

I personally notice different morphological features separating the two as well. Especially in coat colour diversity, where the Przewalski is notably more consistent compared to the more diverse Mongolian. Moreover, I don't beleive Przewalskis express stars on their foreheads; and Przewalski's white muzzle is consistenly more pronounced than in Mongolians.

thank you, I wasn't aware of that! I'm always interested in learning more, and about specifics too!
For someone who isn't a horse person as you say - you sure do know rather a lot!!

George wrote:

sunny wrote:

the Mongolian wild horse and Przewalski are the same species, just different names.

That's perfectly true, but CollectA's isn't a Mongolian wild horse, it's a Mongolian horse. As in, the ones kept in herds in Mongolia, traditionally by nomads but not always. They're ridden for transport, racing, and fun, and come in lots of varied colours. The promo pic by CollectA shows one standing with a saddle and a yurt, he's definitely been released as a Mongolian the domestic breed, rather than Mongolian Wild Horse.

ah okay George! thank you for that. Again, every day's a school day :)

even though I don't collect these larger sized models it's still nice to know all these details about them. I appreciate that!

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

Nice work on the repaints! Always lovely to see primitive markings on horse models, and you've captured those details beautifully. Some people say that primitive markings are "vanilla" or "boring", but I personally prefer them as I mainly collect prehistorics and wild models. Looking forward to seeing your E. simplicidens repaint too!


Yes I've heard of the Hagerman Horse! A shame there isn't a model of it on the market, especially since it's one of the oldest members of Equus, but not surprising since prehistoric horses asa whole rarely if ever get any attention. I'm particularly fond of this reconstruction below by Beth Zaiken:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


And finally, very excited to delve into horses. I've kick started my horse collection with Miguel's fantastic Miocene 3-toed Horse Hipparion primigenium (don't have it on hand yet, but will eventually once he's finished with the Eucladoceros) and Bullyland's Anchitherium; looking to expand my herd over the coming years!
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Thank you so much! I loved painting them, and made them both different. One had lost her tail, and as in real life many zebras (or wild horses) are half tail/tailess! I've seen that a lot.

That's a nice illustration too of it, I saw that on google as well.

And that's wonderful that you are really into the first horse horses!!
I've had this tab open Prehistoric-Fauna for ages on my mac, and every now and then I will bring up another ancient horse to admire and muse over

oh I forgot to say - thank you so much for mentioning Pleistocene Park!!
It is incredible. I had no idea.
their instagram has quite a few horse clips and pics. If you are into stallions fighting? then there is one on that too.

Loving this topic! All of these are excellent suggestions, I would add the Safari (or Schleich if you can source it) przewalski horses might be good stand ins. 

I enjoyed customizing some spare Schleich zebras and an unknown foal into this species. Might be worth a shot if you are up to it.
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If you were looking for foals, these 2 may work (its late here now and I am on my phone not computer, so just links for now), again, if you could find them. 

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Coming from a lesser educated horsey person... maybe some of sculpts for the Icelandics may work if you stayed away from tolt poses and long manes. This is probably a bit too far, but maybe CollectA's British Spotted Pony would work... Lots of Bullyland and some Papo foals would probably work as passable foals/yearlings, they tend to be more robust looking.

Again, I think previous to my post your list looks solid. These are just some late night ramblings of "out there" considerations...Anywho, I will think if there is anything else that may work as a stand in for ancient wild horses. That model by Miguel is superb... it makes me want to work on some customs again.


P.S. Where I used to live in South Eastern Idaho, the Hagerman fossil beds were just a few hours drive from me. The small museum there isn't really much (really a single room with 1 articulated Hagerman Horse and some other curiosities of the small town) but the specimens recovered there and held at the nearby university/museum I attended are spectacular. If I remember right, even one kf the specimens is radioactive from nearby (other direction) nuclear testing sites and has to be "aired out" and vety carefully suited up for before it can be let out for examination by anyone. It brought a smile to my face to be reminded of 1 of 2 familiar fossil species of my hometown! (The other being Helicoprion). But now... I want a Hagerman Horse figure made. 

sunny wrote:

For someone who isn't a horse person as you say - you sure do know rather a lot!!

I'm familiar with the evolutionary relationships & taxonomics, and have a decent understanding of equine anatomy; but anything relating to specific domestic breeds, especially how they've been crossed over human history is entirely alien to me.

Hence I'm consulting the wisdom of this forum to seek out horse breeds with that's been subject to minimal human interference (e.g. no Arab or TB blood), and could reasonably pass off as wild horses... despite the long manes ofc. Likewise, I don't think I'll be dabbling anywhere near the likes of Arabians and WBs / TBs for my collection. Only ancient breeds, wild equids and extinct species for me.

Saarlooswolfhound wrote:

Loving this topic! All of these are excellent suggestions, I would add the Safari (or Schleich if you can source it) przewalski horses might be good stand ins. 

I enjoyed customizing some spare Schleich zebras and an unknown foal into this species. Might be worth a shot if you are up to it.
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those are wonderful customs Paige! I really like the graded head,neck colour on the back right one.

I'm sure you'll have a hagerman soon. That is totally amazing to hear about them being close to you!! What a small world and how very exciting for you?!
I would love to see the articulated one in the museum.

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

sunny wrote:

For someone who isn't a horse person as you say - you sure do know rather a lot!!

I'm familiar with the evolutionary relationships & taxonomics, and have a decent understanding of equine anatomy; but anything relating to specific domestic breeds, especially how they've been crossed over human history is entirely alien to me.

Hence I'm consulting the wisdom of this forum to seek out horse breeds with that's been subject to minimal human interference (e.g. no Arab or TB blood), and could reasonably pass off as wild horses... despite the long manes ofc. Likewise, I don't think I'll be dabbling anywhere near the likes of Arabians and WBs / TBs for my collection. Only ancient breeds, wild equids and extinct species for me.

ah excellent! I see now.

My horse experience is related to being horse crazy and riding as a young girl, having a bedroom full of horse models and me painting a life size accurate horse on my bedroom wall! haha Plus my long love of prehistoric fauna and Mongolian wild horses.
I'm not familiar with all the many details but there sure are some expert horse lovers on this forum who know all about breeds and colours and history.

And I'm half way thru the animal communication online course The Trust Technique by James French. - most of his work is with regular horses - and how they had been abused and mistreated by their many owners over their lifetime. Plus he also works with wild mustangs! (check out his youtube clips on them), lions, bears, dogs, cats and any other animal species he comes into contact with.
I don't understand how a horse can be passed around so often? To me an animal companion is for life, but the horsey people I have had contact with see them as a just an 'experience' or 'tool' to be used and changed when wanted.
Anyway, off topic, but his course is life changing!! I'm using it for my rescue rabbit (free roam house bunny who came from an abusive home). Our relationship is on another level totally.

And I've already done an animal telepathic communication workshop years ago with American communicator Amelia Kinkade! She was called in by the Queen to talk to her horses at Buckingham Palace as one was suddenly very sad and 'acting up'. When she spoke with the horse (telepathically - clairsentient/clairaudience etc) the horse told her that his best friend in the next stable had been moved up to Balmoral the Queen's Scottish summer residence and he was missing him terribly.
(no-one had told Amelia about Balmoral, or moving the other horse, or anything like that, she virtually knew nothing - the horse had told her all of it - thru pictures and words and feelings)
The Queen then got the horses reunited and everything was then good as gold
(by the way in that workshop I was speaking with a dog so easily! it was thrilling! - the dog told me specifically and exactly what he had had for breakfast, and no-one else in the room got the 'right' answer.
-it was Star Shaped Cat Food by the way, haha, crazy! He had stolen some of the cat's food first and they were in the shape of stars.)

I also watch zebras in the wild every day (remotely), and it's so insightful to see their interactions and nuances when they know no humans are around. Such a privilege!
They really are highly energetic beings, lots of energy, lots of close interaction with their small tight family group. - you might see huge herds of zebras, but in reality - there are just lots of small tight family groups all together.
I've been watching 3 different family groups of 8, 4 and 7 zebras and I know them individually.

Anyway, I'm excited to see all the prehistoric horses on this thread. I love it:)

Saarlooswolfhound wrote:

Loving this topic! All of these are excellent suggestions, I would add the Safari (or Schleich if you can source it) przewalski horses might be good stand ins. 

You're welcome! I don't often see primitive breeds getting discussed, it's always the fancy Arabians or TB/WB crosses that gets all the attention. Hoping to give these ancestral breeds the recognition they deserve. Especially since they've served us for thousands of years throughout human history!

Lovely customisations too! It's a dream of mine to finally have a good Przewalski horse that perfectly capture's the subspecies's characteristics.

I've thought long and hard about the 3 major Przewalski's, but ultimately decided against them due to the following reasons:
CollectA: The proportions feels incredibly off, looks like it's suffering from short-spine syndrome.  The pose is very awkward too.
Schleich: Too stocky and robust, looks more like a domestic draft-horse than the titiular wild(?) subspecies.
Safari: Undetailed, looks cartoonish, and a rather geometric & unnatural face sculpt.

Quote :

Coming from a lesser educated horsey person... maybe some of sculpts for the Icelandics may work if you stayed away from tolt poses and long manes. This is probably a bit too far, but maybe CollectA's British Spotted Pony would work...

I've looked at Icelandics as well, along with Fresians and Akhal-Teke. But again, not sure if they've been crossed with more domesticated breeds at some point in the their history; moreover, they don't look particularly "wild" either. Also, what are everyone's thoughts on Mustangs or Brumbys? I know they're basically feral and have regained a few primitive characteristics like a convex profile, but not sure if they're still too domestic in morphology (especially the coat colours) due to their history of being domesticated.

Icelandic: CollectA, Safari
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Friesian: CollectA, Safari
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Akhal-Teke: CollectA
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Quote :

Again, I think previous to my post your list looks solid. These are just some late night ramblings of "out there" considerations...Anywho, I will think if there is anything else that may work as a stand in for ancient wild horses. That model by Miguel is superb... it makes me want to work on some customs again.

I agree! Miguel's work on ancient animals is impeccable. How could I forget his Tarpan E. ferus? (iirc the only Tarpan model available on the market?)
Also incredibly tempted by this stallion. Probably will get it at some point down the line, but these figures don't come cheap.
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FlaffyRaptors wrote:

CollectA: The proportions feels incredibly off, looks like it's suffering from short-spine syndrome.  The pose is very awkward too.

I've got a spare one I'm planning to take a hacksaw to and lengthen out, by slicing it into chunks and using filler I'm hoping to be able to give it the right proportions, cos the face is so nice it deserves an anatomically correct body If I can't match the hair texturing of the original plastic parts believably enough to hide what's filler material, I'm going to give it a patchy shedding winter coat!

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

I've looked at Icelandics as well, along with Fresians and Akhal-Teke. But again, not sure if they've been crossed with more domesticated breeds at some point in the their history; moreover, they don't look particularly "wild" either. Also, what are everyone's thoughts on Mustangs or Brumbys? I know they're basically feral and have regained a few primitive characteristics like a convex profile, but not sure if they're still too domestic in morphology (especially the coat colours) due to their history of being domesticated.

Icelandics, in body type, aren't bad - they've been isolated for long enough that there's not really been any modern mixing of breeds. The problem is most models of them, the CollectA and Safari ones at least, are posed in the specific tolt gait, which isn't found in the primitive breeds and just screams ICELANDIC whenever you look at the models - it'd be impossible to take them as anything else. Schleich do some Icelandics in standing/walking poses, but they lookm a bit too....Schleichy, for want of a better word. Such dodgy proportion and weird features that they miss looking enough like a horse (never mind the fact some of them have braided hair, not allowed when posing as a prehistoric wild horse!)

Mustangs and Brumbies are both far too influenced by the riding horse type - Iberians, thoroughbreds, hunters, hacks, working cattle horses. They're a jumble of a lot of breeds lost/released by settlers, but very little of that blood would've been primitive/native-pony type. Natural selection has made them smaller and sturdier over the years, but they still look like a small mixed-breed riding horse type, they really wouldn't work for your setting.

George wrote:

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

But in my non-horse person opinion, the face sculpt is quite attractive. He's quite the handsome lad.

Yes, he definitely is, one of those horses which captures the look of the breed so well, the handsomeness without being 'pretty' in an overly refined way.

Speaking as an up-and-coming vet, I definitely prefer breeds that don't have to be overly pampered. I just have a negative opinion of breeds that requires babying in order to even survive, be it horses, livestock or companion animals; e.g. breeds that often are riddled with genetic diseases due to inbreeding, or just breed-specific ailments due to unhealthy and unsustainable selective breeding practices. I appreciate the beautiful simplicity of what nature gives us.

George wrote:

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

Though, do you feel that the legs on CollectA sculpts are too thick most of the time?

Yes, I've been bemoaning the chunky leg issue every single time I buy and review new CollectAs!

Glad to hear I'm not the only one.

Definitely agree that the Dartmoor, along with some older CollectA sculpts has better sculptwork than the newer Exmoor and Konik. The lack of muscle definition and over-roundedness gives the impression that these particular individuals are suffering from obesity, with a BCS of at least 4 if not 5  (or 7-8 depending on which scale is used). You may be correct that Breyer had an influence on this drop in quality. As a company's products, and a sculptor's skill usually increases in quality overtime, and not decrease. Regardless, I still feel that the Mongolian, Exmoor and Konik are worth picking up since they're so cheap; the Mongolian in particular which is the standout among the 3 IMO.

George wrote:

The Camargue model is really lovely, and you do avoid the thicker leg issue on the newer Konik mould by going for the older Camaergue one, but lose out on the dun colour which is such a strong indicator of a primitive horse that I'd rather go for the colour being typical rather than the mould being ever so slightly nicer!

I'm not too fussed about the coat colour on the Camargue since I can quite easily customise it into a leopard pattern. Something well documented to have existed in our ancestors wall paintings.

George wrote:

I like both Fjords, which isn't a lot of help But remember their upright manes are cut like that, rather than being a natural trait of the breed - if you don't give a fjord a regular haircut, it's mane will flop over and grow just as long as any other pony. And the trim is too sharp-looking on both these sculpts to pass as a naturally spiky mane for a wild horse.

Ah that's a shame then . I guess the only non-trimmed Fjord on the market is the 2014 Schleich Mare, but the anatomy isn't very good and quite cartoony... Out of curiousity, what do you think of the Safari Fjord then? Seems to be sculpted by the same person responsible for their Przewalski, but the face musculature doesn't look as unnaturally geometric as the Przewalski.
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George wrote:

The Dartmoor is an older sculpt, yes, but in my opinion it's one of the best they ever had, and far superior to the exmoor in terms of proportion, detail, clarity, and expressive spark. But Dartmoor ponies have had a lot of outside influence over the years, there's a good dose of Arabian blood in there, as well as TB through the Welsh B crossing which was done to 'improve' them as a show pony last century. So even though they're a native breed, and some of their ancestry is true british wild horse, there's an awful lot in them which isn't, and they don;t have a primitive look at all. Which is a shame, cos the CollectA Dartmoor is gorgeous!

I agree, the Dartmoor is superior to the Exmoor. It's a shame the Dartmoor is unsuitable for my purposes due to all the mixing, as I am quite fond of how the model looks from the front. The sculptwork around the muzzle is particularly captivating. But oh well, it doesn't look quite as wild/primitive as I had hoped.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the two breeds too! It's interesting how drastically different they are in personality despite originating from basically the same region. But if the scrappy & hardy Exmoor can handle itself in a semi-feral state no problem, surviving with zero pampering, then it is automatically my preferred breed lol.
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George wrote:

I agree about the summer coat, they could've had a textured little hairball of a Yakut pony! I hadn't considered that one, again it would look nicely 'wild' and they're a primitive got-that-way-by-natural-selection breed rather than one with hot blooded horse crossed in. Again, a shame not to have a dun or bay as they're the oldest colours, but I was disappointed when they didn't do it dun anyway, so many Yakuts are!

Yeah, massive missed opportunity by CollectA there. We could've had a model of these cute tubby fuzz balls instead of yet another generic horse. The choice to paint it in a pure white coat strikes me as odd too, I far prefer Duns when it comes to Yakutians. Probably will be skipping the CollectA Yakutian as well for that reason and more.
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FlaffyRaptors wrote:

Speaking as an up-and-coming vet, I definitely prefer breeds that don't have to be overly pampered. I just have a negative opinion of breeds that requires babying in order to even survive, be it horses, livestock or companion animals; e.g. breeds that often are riddled with genetic diseases due to inbreeding, or just breed-specific ailments due to unhealthy and unsustainable selective breeding practices. I appreciate the beautiful simplicity of what nature gives us.

Yeah, I've been a horse groom and spent my time stressed out and pandering to pampered horses on the owner's strict instructions. Now I've bought my own, I chose natives and they live outside free to be natural horses in a big field with weeds and brambles and hay rather than hard feed, in all weathers, no matter what - even if it snows. Not clipped, never bathed, only groomed when they're shedding. The field flooded once, one pony lived on an island of high ground with a bale of hay I floated over in a wheelbarrow, the other was happy to wade around knee-deep in the flood cos it was a novelty! I'm a firm believer that if you get horses which can contentedly just be a horse, they don't need all the stuff and fuss

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

I'm not too fussed about the coat colour on the Camargue since I can quite easily customise it into a leopard pattern. Something well documented to have existed in our ancestors wall paintings.

Oh yes, that would look great! I remember reading some point in the last few years that they've confirmed the leopard pattern spotting gene in DNA testing too now, which backs up the cave painting as a true representation rather than an artist being creative and doing dots for the sake of it!

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

Ah that's a shame then . I guess the only non-trimmed Fjord on the market is the 2014 Schleich Mare, but the anatomy isn't very good and quite cartoony... Out of curiousity, what do you think of the Safari Fjord then? Seems to be sculpted by the same person responsible for their Przewalski, but the face musculature doesn't look as unnaturally geometric as the Przewalski.

Yes, I agree, really not a Schleich fan, it's good that they did a full-maned one but not really an option for a collector aiming for realistic art style.
The Safari Fjord isn't bad, it's just not as good as their earlier sculpts by Jane Lunger (the Icelandic, Shire, previous Friesian, etc - you can tell which are her work cos they all have sharp cheekbones!). It looks a lot like the 3D sculpting done by computer program - something about the smooth regularity of surface and the rather tubular forelock, that looks like it's been designed with 3D shapes rather than physically put there with clay and fingertips and careful smushing with pointy sticks
And oddly enough, I don't really mind this art style variation - yes, it's not as photo-realistic as a more skilled and natural-looking sculpt could be, but I kind of like it as an artistic interpretation. I did my final college paper on the behaviour of the przewalski's horse in the wild and in captivity, so their look is kind of ingrained in my mind a bit, and there's something in the Safari which resonates - the wedge-shaped set of the neck into deep shoulders. The texturing isn't the best (Schleich wins there, for a change), and the symmetry might be offputting, but it's my favourite rendition out of the three brands.

FlaffyRaptors wrote:

Yeah, massive missed opportunity by CollectA there. We could've had a model of these cute tubby fuzz balls instead of yet another generic horse. The choice to paint it in a pure white coat strikes me as odd too, I far prefer Duns when it comes to Yakutians. Probably will be skipping the CollectA Yakutian as well for that reason and more.

With the way CollectA have been issuing extra colours on existing moulds over the last few years, I'm pretty hopeful of a dun Yakut at some point! At least three of us have been saying 'pity it's not dun' in places I've read, so I'd expect there's been similar discussion out there on social media - I'd hope companies have ways of hearing public opinion on the internet!

sunny wrote:

My horse experience is related to being horse crazy and riding as a young girl, having a bedroom full of horse models and me painting a life size accurate horse on my bedroom wall! haha Plus my long love of prehistoric fauna and Mongolian wild horses.
I'm not familiar with all the many details but there sure are some expert horse lovers on this forum who know all about breeds and colours and history.

And I'm half way thru the animal communication online course The Trust Technique by James French. - most of his work is with regular horses - and how they had been abused and mistreated by their many owners over their lifetime. Plus he also works with wild mustangs! (check out his youtube clips on them), lions, bears, dogs, cats and any other animal species he comes into contact with.
I don't understand how a horse can be passed around so often? To me an animal companion is for life, but the horsey people I have had contact with see them as a just an 'experience' or 'tool' to be used and changed when wanted.
Anyway, off topic, but his course is life changing!! I'm using it for my rescue rabbit (free roam house bunny who came from an abusive home). Our relationship is on another level totally.

And I've already done an animal telepathic communication workshop years ago with American communicator Amelia Kinkade! She was called in by the Queen to talk to her horses at Buckingham Palace as one was suddenly very sad and 'acting up'. When she spoke with the horse (telepathically - clairsentient/clairaudience etc) the horse told her that his best friend in the next stable had been moved up to Balmoral the Queen's Scottish summer residence and he was missing him terribly.
(no-one had told Amelia about Balmoral, or moving the other horse, or anything like that, she virtually knew nothing - the horse had told her all of it - thru pictures and words and feelings)
The Queen then got the horses reunited and everything was then good as gold
(by the way in that workshop I was speaking with a dog so easily! it was thrilling! - the dog told me specifically and exactly what he had had for breakfast, and no-one else in the room got the 'right' answer.
-it was Star Shaped Cat Food by the way, haha, crazy! He had stolen some of the cat's food first and they were in the shape of stars.)

Thank you for sharing your story! It's always such a pleasure to read about why people get into this hobby of collecting. While we might not all collect the same things, the fundemental passion behind our hobby should reasonate with every collector.

I'll admit I'm not too comfortable around horses, pet horses especially. Maybe it's because I haven't had the chance to work with horses much; but as of now I'd much rather keep my distance and admire them from afar like wild animals, which is why I'm more drawn to these primitive breeds and wild species. Beautiful creatures they are, but a hassle to treat and work with at times. Their highly derived anatomy just makes my job so much more difficult

sunny wrote:

I also watch zebras in the wild every day (remotely), and it's so insightful to see their interactions and nuances when they know no humans are around. Such a privilege!
They really are highly energetic beings, lots of energy, lots of close interaction with their small tight family group. - you might see huge herds of zebras, but in reality - there are just lots of small tight family groups all together.
I've been watching 3 different family groups of 8, 4 and 7 zebras and I know them individually.

Yes zebras are very fun to watch! Some people write them off as just "horses with stripes", when in reality they are very different creatures, especially in the way they behave. I plan on getting the CollectA Grevy's and Plains Zebras too, to my eyes they look very well done. Hopefully CollectA will also make a Mountain Zebra to round out the major 3 species of zebra. There's no reason for CollectA to not make the extinct Quagga as well, since they already have a Plains Zebra sculpt; just a repaint will suffice I believe? And if we're lucky, CollectA can get a LOT of mileage out of that Plains Zebra sculpt by repainting it into the many other Equus quagga subspecies.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

sunny wrote:

Anyway, I'm excited to see all the prehistoric horses on this thread. I love it:)

Me too! I'm waiting to see if Safari, Schleich, Papo and CollectA have anything else that might interest me for 2023 before placing a big order. Mainly keeping an eye out for more tapirs, pig breeds (Papo Vietnamese pot-belly looks promising), and of course primitive horses now too.

Are there any other wild equids on the market you could reccomend? I recall CollectA doing an African Wild Ass, but I'm not familiar with donkeys enough to be able to tell if it's a good representation or not.
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sunny wrote:

oh I forgot to say - thank you so much for mentioning Pleistocene Park!!
It is incredible. I had no idea.

You're welcome, it's a facinating project isn't it? The project introduced me to the existance of Yakutian horses actually! I regard them as some of the most unique horse breeds around.

George wrote:

I've got a spare one I'm planning to take a hacksaw to and lengthen out, by slicing it into chunks and using filler I'm hoping to be able to give it the right proportions, cos the face is so nice it deserves an anatomically correct body If I can't match the hair texturing of the original plastic parts believably enough to hide what's filler material, I'm going to give it a patchy shedding winter coat!

Would absolutely love to see it! Please do share when you've gotten around to giving the CollectA Przewalski some major reconstructive surgery!

And yeah I agree about that head sculpt too. Definitely captures that Przewalski-look way better than Safari or Schleich's versions. It's just such a shame it's stuck in an awkward pose with poorly done proportions. Surely somewhere along the sculpting process, someone would've noticed that the neck and body were too short?  The amount of money I'd throw at CollectA to remake their Przewalski... (hopefully without overly thick legs)

George wrote:

Icelandics, in body type, aren't bad - they've been isolated for long enough that there's not really been any modern mixing of breeds. The problem is most models of them, the CollectA and Safari ones at least, are posed in the specific tolt gait, which isn't found in the primitive breeds and just screams ICELANDIC whenever you look at the models - it'd be impossible to take them as anything else. Schleich do some Icelandics in standing/walking poses, but they lookm a bit too....Schleichy, for want of a better word. Such dodgy proportion and weird features that they miss looking enough like a horse (never mind the fact some of them have braided hair, not allowed when posing as a prehistoric wild horse!)

Mustangs and Brumbies are both far too influenced by the riding horse type - Iberians, thoroughbreds, hunters, hacks, working cattle horses. They're a jumble of a lot of breeds lost/released by settlers, but very little of that blood would've been primitive/native-pony type. Natural selection has made them smaller and sturdier over the years, but they still look like a small mixed-breed riding horse type, they really wouldn't work for your setting.

Thanks again for your wisdom! I would've been so lost on what to pick without this informative thread. Will be excluding Icelandics and Mustangs/Brumbies from my search then based on this information. The other primitive breeds are already cutting it close for what's acceptable in a "wild" display, so definitely don't want anything that even comes close to being domestic. As much as I'd like to buy every single animal figure that ever existed, cost and space is a factor too afterall...

It's facinating how even in a few short centuries, which is nothing on an evolutionary timescale; horses generally revert back to their default-look despite being from separate populations (Mustangs & Brumbies). And goes to show that natural morphologies are the most healthy and sustainable.